Rough patch with a lot of flakes…next steps.

Well, as you guys I’m sure have noticed, I haven’t had any lay or date reports as of recently, and that’s because… I haven’t had any dates or lays for a couple weeks.

Most of this I chalk up to bad luck. Some portion of chicks you meet will flake–anyone who’s read Tom Torero or Nash or done it himself knows that about half of the numbers you get from doing day game won’t reply, and another halfish of the ones who do won’t end up out on a date.

What this means in the short run is that it’s possible to have a stretch like I’ve had, where a lot of numbers aren’t responding and/or even the chicks who do end up flaking out on the actual date. Life tends to go in streaks, which means you can have 25 chicks from day game flake on you in a row and the next 5 all come out on dates and fuck. I think Tom mentions that even a very good player converts about 1/30 approaches into a lay, which means I’m doing just fine.

At least I know that’s the reasonable thing to think–just like in poker where you get a lot of shitty hands in a row, or baseball when a hitter is in a slump, or a good three point shooter missing 10 shots consecutively, it’s just something that can happen anytime there’s a large degree of randomness in a particular game.

I’ve also had a lot of near misses: was at a girl’s house Saturday with a friend, but because of that logistics were fucked, had the instant date two weeks ago where my logistics were again fucked, had a girl who was interested but leaving town, one of the girls I smashed last month was from out of town, another is a single mom (these are almost never worth your time), and the third went on vacation right after we smashed–a lot of shit like that.

Of course it’s still frustrating, and when it comes to something like game and women, it’s easy to start asking yourself questions, losing confidence in your abilities, etc.

I do have to admit, it makes me wonder about the plausibility of day game going forward, but at the same time I know I haven’t done nearly enough approaches to know full well if it works or not, and like I said earlier, a lot of the shitty responses can be chalked up to bad luck. I also know that as my game improves, the numbers should get less flaky–to be honest if I go back far enough, I’m pretty close to the stats Tom Torero talks about.

However, just for my own sake, here’s what I’m wondering: are women now so attuned to meeting guys through SOD that it’s weird to meet up with a guy who approaches on the street? Are they more likely to flake with a day gamer than a swiper? Also, are guys generally so shitty these days that women take us for granted–one blue pill guy is as good as the next, so why bother caring too much? Again, this points me to more polarity in my game–the only way to buck these trends is to stand out more.

I know women complain about not being approached and/or asked out IRL all the time, but to what extent they appreciate it, a shit load of them still manage to flake out. I guess part of that is that women are flaky in general, and our culture now enables/encourages people to be flaky as well.

Anyway, I have come to a few realizations in this shitty stretch that may be of use to guys:

Treat a non-reply to a text as a shit test: by not replying, she’s daring you to freak out, because that’s what a lot of guys do, and then when that happens, she has every reason not to go out with the guy.

What I do instead is wait, usually 48 hours, then either send a joke text or a funny GIF that shows someone fucking up somehow–kind of both poking fun at her for not replying and you for not being worth a reply. The text is one that I set up with my initial text–often what I’ll do for an initial ping is:

“Hey X, I hope you’re surviving the week so far”

Then if she doesn’t reply, I text:

“OMG! You’re not? Well it was nice meeting you anyway lmao”

What’s interesting is that a lot of girls will then reply, I assume because you’re showing yourself to hold frame, be funny, and non-reactionary. Of course, some of the girls never reply regardless, but there’s no reason not to ping them if they don’t in one of the ways I just described, because at least some of those flaky numbers will engage.

Book two dates on the same night, especially with girls who seem unsure/flaky: I’m going to experiment, but I’ve seen guys talk about this before–Todd V and RSD Max in particular. Obviously, it becomes a bit of a problem if both girls actually come out, because then you’ll have to flake on one of them, but this is the reality of modern dating: girls are super fucking flaky and especially if it’s the first date there’s a fair chance she’s going to flake on you. The other thing is that assuming they both come out, the girl you flake on is probably still in play if you let her know beforehand–the fact something is more important to you than her demonstrates value in a woman’s eyes.

Discuss what you’re going to do on the number close: I think some guys in game call this grounding, but it’s a good point–the women I’ve done this with are more likely to come out it seems, or to at least let me know if they’re going to flake. So a simple: do you like wine or beer? There’s a great wine bar near my place, yada, yada, yada.

I’ve only done it once and so far the girl is not responding, but one thing I’m going to experiment with on the close is directly saying, “wait, you’re not one of those flaky girls are you? Because if you are this is never going work.” It seems to me that seeding this in the conversation is one way to prevent a girl from flaking, because if when you ping her later or set up a date with her later and she doesn’t reply or flakes, then she’s proving to you and more importantly, herself, that she is a flaky girl–and women hate that kind of shit. As I said, I don’t know if it works or not, but it’s something I’m going to try.

Don’t delete a girl’s number unless she’s 100% unresponsive: because if she’s responding, that means you have a chance, and even though she might not come out this week, she might come out next week, or the week after. Girls are super weird and random and if you play it cool and don’t lose frame by getting upset, you’ve always got a chance. I’ve had sex with several girls who weren’t responding and then hit me up out of the blue.

In general: life has its ups and downs and women are no different. I know that this is merely a period I’m going through and that things will eventually turn around. I’ve made a point of going for younger, hotter chicks too–upping the degree of difficulty so to speak–and I think that’s part of it. I also need to remind myself that I slept with three girls last month, had two plates spinning earlier this year, and have had an n-count over the past 9-10 months that’s pretty decent.

That being said, it’s hard. I’ve listened now to most of Tom Torero’s podcasts and he so often talks or alludes to the dark periods, and I guess I’m in one of those. Because no matter how red-pilled you are, it’s impossible to be 100% outcome independent.

And having girls flake, ghost, and reject you hurts. We’re human beings: we didn’t evolve to have people treat us like shit. This is why anxiety and depression are chronic problems for younger generations: they’re constantly waiting for replies, likes, or responses to text or posts on social media, and it’s nerve wracking to do that 24/7.

If I have one larger reservation, it’s this: are the Millennial generation and the ones who come after so broken by their addiction to phones, social media, etc.–so socially deficient–that it massively ups the numbers one needs to farm out?

To some extent, I think the answer is yes–but on the other hand, there’s nothing any of us can do about that except look for ways to work around it. And ultimately, people are people. Girls may be super flaky these days, but that deep urge to fuck an alpha male is not ever going to go away, which means there’s a way forward for a guy with game.

Anyway, for my own sake, here are my next steps:

  1. Continue to approach–I can tell in the way women are reacting to me that my game is as strong as ever. On Saturday I went 3/3 getting numbers, even though it wasn’t proper day game. I’m still learning the best spots in town to day game, but as I work out the logistics and continue to improve my game, I should get more numbers and less of them will flake.
  2. As a supplement, I bit the bullet and opened an SOD account. I don’t expect much for reasons I’ve described, but even if it generates half a dozen dates a year, that’s worth it because my ability to seal the deal if I get a girl out is pretty good.
  3. I need to get a larger sample of women, which means gaming in different places–as I noted, basic girls are less susceptible to cold approach than other girls, so I need to do more to seek out different populations. I’ve had the idea to run game in grocery stores and I still haven’t done that explicitly.
  4. Experiment with texting and how I ask girls out. One thing I’ve relied on which worked well before was pinging only once or twice before asking the girl out–that hasn’t worked well recently, but I don’t know if that’s because that approach is flawed or because I’m just running into a bunch of flaky girls. It could help to build more comfort and/or value with regard to texting, but at the same time everything about game and communication tells me that trying to build rapport via text is generally a bad idea. Maybe exchanging SnapChat is better, because you can send photos and remind her? Or maybe calling? Curious what works for other guys…
  5. Get better photos, both for SOD and Instagram. To be clear, I don’t think SOD works very well because of the dynamic of women being in abundance and men being in scarcity, but I’m not opposed to swiping on Tinder if it actually means matching with hot chicks–it just never really has for me. My quality from cold approach is much higher. However, I recently had a girl hit me up on Instagram saying I was looking good, and any residual women I can pick up because they follow me on Insta or we match on SOD is a bonus.
  6. Improve my social circle–for one I need a wing or two, but in addition it would help if I had friends who were into cool shit. The fact is that as of now, nearly all my friends are married with kids. Again, I don’t want to rely on social circle game, but if I can pick up a few chicks here and there that way, so much the better. In some ways all of these things are ways I can diversify my portfolio so to speak.
  7. I need to improve my night game–when girls go to clubs they’re usually ovulating/super horny and looking for a Chad. Admittedly I’m shitty at this aspect of game, but it’s an area that’s ripe if I can figure it out.

Well, this has been a bit of a depressing blog to write, but I’m committed to documenting this journey for better or worse.

A quick ask: what works for you guys? What’s the best way to text to get girls out? How do you deal with flakes? What can I do in-field to get fewer flaky numbers?

7 thoughts

  1. I’m totally impressed with your drive to get out there and take a shot. I only average about a phone number per week, since I’m really selective about the ladies that I approach.

    To answer your question though, here’s what I do when I get a lady’s number:

    1) When I get the number, I tell her that I’ll call her. I recently also started to send a short text immediately, so that she has my caller ID.

    2) I will then text within a day to let her know when I will call. I try to call as soon as I can, but never on a Friday or Saturday night.

    3) So far, 100% of the time she will text back something short and positive if she is looking forward to my call. I’ve never had a lady answer my phone call if she hasn’t sent this confirmation.

    4) I’ll then call and leave a message if she doesn’t answer.

    If she didn’t answer the phone, it’s up to her to call or text me back that she’s still interested. If I don’t hear from her in 2 days, I delete her number.

    I realize that I lose some opportunities by not being persistent. That’s ok though. I’m looking for relationships instead of just getting laid. If a lady isn’t enthusiastic about getting to know me, I’m not interested.

    P.S. So far, 100% of phone calls result in dates.

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  2. “‘Taint what you do, it’s the way that you do it.”

    You have built good habits of approaching and getting numbers so that’s an accomplishment. And not a small one.

    In daygame girls only know what you tell them about yourself. And you are telling them that you are not an important person, just some guy hustling cute girls phone numbers on the street. They are following your lead by having other priorities.

    One fix, call it the rsd approach, is to continue to spam tons of girls until you get lucky, find a yes girl who is horny and needs a same day lay or such. The validation and physical intimacy will improve your self image, your body language, and your boundaries. Then you will get better results. Of course you have the PUA problem of ‘only being as good as your last lay.’

    A better fix, call it the Yohami method or Wall Street Playboy game, is to actually become the sort of man that women daydream about; the captain of industry (it can be a small industry, as long as you are captain and in the black,) who wears stylish clothes, talks easily and confidently to men and to women, whom men admire… It’s not actually all that hard because the competition is just not there in numbers. Guys who make $$, present and speak well, wear clothes that fit, and socialize just the right amount; they are VERY rare in women’s lives, so they never get flaked on.

    *There are a small quantity of guys who have the real goods but fail spectacularly to communicate such the moment you put a beautiful woman in front of them. They just need exposure therapy, lots of approaches to get over nerves.

    There is a good discussion on Nash’s blog in the comments here: (bailing at LMR moment and flaking are related.)
    https://daysofgame.com/theory/paul-janka-escalation-lmr-free-ebook-download/

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    1. I’m not spam approaching–I’m following the London Day Game model, but it is true that I’m new at this and I’m sure some of the flakes are due to that. I have to say for sure that my sets aren’t long enough–Tom Torero says 7 minutes is basically the ideal, but between 7-10 is what you want to go for, and I’ll admit my sets are probably 5 minutes or less. I think your second comment might be part of it as well in terms of approaching: some of the women who flaked on me weren’t super attractive, and my guess is they flaked either out of intimidation or because they could sense I wasn’t super stoked on them.
      I disagree that some guys never get flaked on–if you’re in the game, approaching hot chicks, it’s going to happen. Nash gets flaked, Krauser, Mystery, Torero–it happens to the best guys in game, so it’s certainly going to happen to me.
      Thank you for the thoughts and encouragement bro!

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  3. One other possibility –

    I went through a long painful stretch in my early days (reading David Deangelo & al.) where I got nothing but flakes, often agreeing to dates and not showing, from pretty much all women I number closed. None of these women were anything special, I closed them because they barely met the would-you-kick-them-out-of-the-bed standard and I had nothing better going on. And that made it even more frustrating, even infuriating, when they would flake.

    The streak ended when I started traveling to a much larger city and approaching and closing women that I was strongly attracted to. In hindsight, I was lukewarm at best about most of the girls I met in my little city. I made myself go through the motions anyway and they responded by going through the motions as well. Little wonder that they didn’t follow through.

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