On being a “high value guy” vs. actually having game.

U-Game Mantra 3: value/game first, then coolness/status.

I just read an old post from Nash called “cool guy game vs. real value“–this post is in response to that, but there were so many comments on the original I figured it would be better to just write my own blog about it. So for context, read Nash first, then this…

That said, the simple argument here is whether guys are better off being “cool”, aloof, etc. and making girls chase, or whether you need to be leading in interactions with girls and actually have game.

A huge portion of the red pill (also: read 10 things every guy should know about TRP) and seduction (PUA) communities believe the former, and I’m here to tell you, it’s bullshit unless you have the latter. Am I saying that learning game is more important than lifting, reading, learning, and having a mission?

In some ways, yes. A few questions to make the point:

  • How often are you randomly approached and asked out by beautiful women, whether at work, school, restaurants, or otherwise?
  • Can you automatically tell how much money, status, and power someone has based on a few minutes of interacting with them?
  • How often do women ask you on a date, plan the first few dates, make the first move, and/or escalate toward sex?

If we’re honest, for 99% of men, the answers are as follows:

  • Almost never/very rarely.
  • Without more background knowledge, no–and unless someone’s extremely up front about it, it’s pretty rare to know exactly how wealthy someone is unless they’re next level rich ($10 million or more).
  • I’ve had women do some of these things very rarely, but I’ve never had a woman check off every one, while I’ve done so myself many, many times.

The point is, from meeting to date to escalation to sex, if it’s going to happen, 99.99% of the time, it means you–the man–need to make it happen.

Will the other stuff–lifting, reading, mission, learning–help you make it happen? Absolutely. Lifting makes you more attractive, reading makes you smart and good at conversation, having a mission means you’ve created abundance and are non-needy, and learning makes you more analytical and socially calibrated. All of these things supplement and support your game.

But without understanding and implementing game, none of it matters when it comes to getting women. Even guys who are incredibly attractive rarely get approached–and OK, he’s on SOD (swipe/online dating) so all that matters are his pics, but what happens when he gets the girl on a date and starts asking her all the chody questions in the world, is super needy and awkward, serious and love-struck, has oneitis and lets her know about it?

The fact is, if she’s hot at all, she’s probably gone.

Nash is 100% right: if you’re going to get chicks, you have to deliver real value–it’s not enough to just be a cool guy. I mean, maybe–maybe in high school or college where you can run social circle game–maybe then it works. Or maybe as a club promoter or DJ or rockstar or handsome tour guide in a European city… but how many guys fit into those categories? Very few.

And even then, the rule still applies: if something’s going to happen, it’s on the man to make it happen.

So the advice that essentially, if you’re a super cool guy chicks will just flock to you and you can make them chase is just fucking stupid–if you are that guy, you already know it and wouldn’t need to read blogs about pick-up and red pill to get women, right?

And if you aren’t, you need to learn game. I’m not saying guys shouldn’t work on who they are, better themselves, etc. so that they actually are cool–I’m saying that being cool in and of itself is not going to get you laid. Moreover, it’s horrible advice to give to guys who are trying to get better with women, because the implication is that you don’t have to approach women, learn to be direct, learn to escalate, or take action.

“Nah man, just be cool…”

The other thing is that generally speaking, women don’t chase… until you chase them. I wrote a good post on the mothership awhile back about how one should be excellent, and then be gone (I didn’t realize it when I was writing the post, but this is apparently the same advice that appears in the Tao of Steve)–which is true–but the point Nash is making is that first you have to be excellent.

In other words, it’s only after you deliver/display value that the girl will chase. I got a model’s number yesterday (HB 9) through some day game, pinged her yesterday, got a response, pinged her again today, got a response, and then before I texted back, she texted that I should ask her out–in effect, is chasing.

But that doesn’t happen if I don’t take the initiative and deliver value through day game first.

Think of it through the eyes of a hot, young chick: why would she chase? She has guys chasing her all the time and can take her pick. The girl I banged last week (coming over tonight for round 2), a 23-year-old HB 8 waitress, told me on our date that she had a guy offer to fly her to Europe recently on an all expenses paid vacation.

OK, so who’s cooler and has more money and status–me or the guy who can fly her to fucking Europe?

A: not me.

But who has game and therefore value? Who’s shown he can tease and be playful and fun and interesting and mysterious?

A: me.

To be honest I actually got a little mad reading the comments on Nash’s post because guys were arguing with him and it was all just pure bullshit–it was clear a lot of those guys are keyboard PUAs who have no real experience in-field. And again, it’s bad advice to be giving guys who are trying to learn game–I honestly don’t think it’s really very useful advice for anyone, because, “just be cool..” isn’t really even actionable. Like, what does that even mean? Be super rich? Morph into Dan Bilzerian?

Just be cool? Oh, OK, thanks–I’ll get right on that.

I guess that’s the thing: if you have game (Tinder is not game, sorry–that’s mostly guys banging sub-par single moms and older chicks)–if you actually do cold approach pick-up, whether through day game or night game–you know that’s shitty advice.

U-game Mantra 3: Value first, then coolness.

2 thoughts

  1. I’m 53. I’ve been a high-value guy my entire life. Some would call me a natural. I discovered “game” less than 2 years ago, when I started searching on the internet for ways to be better in bed.

    For me “game” is simply a specialized social skill that I’ve added to my interactions with women. I would still be getting laid and into relationships with attractive women, without knowledge of “game”. This is because my value is real and women have usually allowed me to blunder my way into the bedroom. “Game” makes it easier though.

    So to directly respond to the premise of the original post, value is waaaay more important than game.

    Like

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