So, in terms of lays, I got the one–and she happened to be pretty hot–but that happened right away and nothing since (also, remember, I’d approached this chick before, so in some ways, day game set me up for that swipe).
However, I’ve modified my profile in a way that seems to be getting me more views and more responses. Most then at some point go silent and ghost, everything from immediately after we match to one session I had with a girl where I got her actual number and had a text session via phone for about 30-40 minutes. Try to get her out a day later: ghost town. I’ll mention some of that below, but before we go any further, I want to give you the most actionable information from this post.
TL;DR–LEARN COLD APPROACH PICK-UP AND GAME.
Seriously. The biggest takeaway from my perspective is that app dating is still not going to work for most guys, and even for guys it does work for, their results, total notches and quality, will be way better if they learn cold approach pick-up.
Like, even if I was matching twice as much as I am, that still might not get me any chicks, because so, so many go dark–and it’s not as if I’m daft at texting or gaming chicks. I text them the same way I’d text a cold approach chick (for all texting, check out Mr. V’s excellent texting post), but cold approach chicks tend to respond and many, if not most, come out.
Not on Tinder. These girls are flaky AF. And I think even if you were a VERY good looking guy, you’d still have tons of chicks flaking (actually I know this is true–may I introduce our friend Magnum, who has a must read post on how to minimize flaking).
I should stop here to say where I’m at in terms of looks, because online, I’m convinced that this is clearly the most important factor–which is why so many younger guys are blackpill I suspect. They don’t understand how big of a difference game makes.
As I’ve said before, I’m tall: 6’3″ and built like a football player (I’m commonly asked if I was one), somewhere between a linebacker and a tight end. In terms of my fitness I’ve got a little pudge here and there, but I’m pretty well built and solid, big arms, you can see my veins in my biceps and forearms.
As for style, I’d say it’s good, not great. Longish messy hair, fake black gauge earrings (going to finally make them real), tattoos on my arms, and a few rings and necklaces depending on the day.
If I had to peg myself, I’m probably a high 7, maybe a low 8 for some chicks who really like big guys–and some really do, just like some of us guys really like small chicks.
That said, my pics are only OK. But they do show what I’ve described above.
I have Tinder Gold so I can see who matches with me, and TBH, most are huge sweat hogs. That’s mean, and I probably shouldn’t say it, but I also think it’s ridiculous that these chicks would even bother (get to the gym for Christ’s sake). I guess here’s the thing–I might swipe on a 9 or 10 cause I’m close enough to that level and have enough game I’d have at least a small chance of not fucking it up, but I’d still probably fuck it up.
With these chicks, we’re talking 0’s. Like, I guess in the grand scheme of all women, maybe 2’s, 4’s? But I don’t understand why any dude would want to fuck some of these girls, and it’s almost insulting they actually think they should swipe right on a guy who’s NEVER going to match with them, and even if he did, would NEVER consider going on a date, let alone having sex and/or a relationship with them. I’m sure guys do this as well. Really dumb, when what anyone 6 or below should do is get to the fucking gym and stop eating carbs.
However, I do match with some hot chicks. The girl I fucked was a low, but solid 8. Petite, 5’0″, great little body. In terms of chicks I’ve kept in my message section, I think there are like 8 or 9 and averaging between 7-8 in terms of hotness, all between 19-25.
And all currently not replying–actually, a few who are still active, but I’m not too excited about the chances they actually come out, so let’s get to our lessons from RPD’s experience on Tinder Gold.
(Update: while writing this I actually number closed a chick I’d been texting with, so we’ll see what happens with that. Update 2: now we’re scheduled for a date Wednesday. Very hot. 18. But my guess is she flakes.)
1. Open to close ratio is way worse than day game and it’s not close.
Keep in mind, looks matter, so this is relative to looks. Chad probably does pretty well doing cold approach, right? Probably better than average? So yeah, it’s all relative. But relative to what you can/could get, day game is always better.
Online, you’re getting rejected constantly and capriciously. Remember, 99% of girls are swiping left from the get go. That’s just the statistics. OK, maybe 97% for Chad.
Then, of the ones you match with, another 9/10 of them are going to go silent. Again, keep in mind that this is me, 7.5ish in terms of SMV.
Obviously, I assume more come out the hotter you are, so that’s where I think you have to make progress if you want this to work better: be really, really, really good looking. If you’re in the top 5% in terms of fitness, and have excellent pics, you probably close more than that.
What that means varies greatly depending where you live as bigger cities are much better than medium ones. And if your metro is less than 500,000, it’s probably not going to be worth it.
How much more? I don’t know. But I’ll say this:
2. What guys get in terms of quality and quantity on Tinder is overstated.
Every time I’ve seen a guy say he’s banging hot chicks online, I always see them and think: oh, she’s a classic IG 7 American white girl. Prettyish, a nice enough body, usually has a nice slutty smile, pouty lips. But those girls are super common. If you’re a player you fuck girls like that all the time. Go back and read my field reports.
What girls don’t understand is that even a 9/10 Chad will fuck a 7 if he’s got a free night in his schedule. Cause they’re fun. BTW, from what I can tell, there’s a strain of advice from Kill Your Inner Loser and Good Looking Loser which is this: get super fit, dress stylishly, and put yourself in front of a certain number of chicks and some will bang you (Andy’s doing through Tinder, GLL did it through cold approach night game I think). There’s a lot of truth to this, and if you’re cool with banging 6’s & 7’s, you can probably do OK. But if you want 8’s plus, you’ve gotta learn cold approach pick up and game.
And remember, even Chad’s not constantly banging 8’s and 9’s because:
a) chicks that hot are pretty fucking rare,
b) a lot of 8’s and 9’s are taken or don’t do online dating because they don’t have to, and
c) lots of 8’s and 9’s don’t swipe on Chad, because he’s not their kind of Chad.
In this way, online dating is a good way to fuck girls -2 of your value, but that’s only if you’re in the top 20% of guys in the first place.
The point is that there’s no secret fucking Chad code (see what I did there) that’s going to get a guy a lot of pussy way higher than his own value consistently, and even then, getting really hot chicks to fuck you is ALWAYS going to be difficult.
But the best way to do that, in my honest opinion, is learning cold approach pick up. It’s the only way you can guarantee having a shot at 8’s and higher. And even Chad would get hotter chicks with cold approach than he does on Tinder. I guarantee it. But nothing against him if he wants to be lazy and fuck the IG 7’s.
More 8’s for us!
3. Bio is more important than guys think.
Black pill guys would say it matters fuck all, but they’re wrong in this case as with many others.
Game > looks. Looks matter–anyone who says otherwise is a fool–but they don’t matter nearly as much as your game.
Reminder: bio is game, not looks.
Anyway, anyone who experiments with the bio finds that some things work better than others. So far, the ideal bio has some balance of sexual innuendo (value) AND comfort, exactly what we’d do in cold approach.
I initially tried Andy’s BDSM deal, but I dialed that back a bit. His is something about how he used to get into trouble for pulling hair, funny how things change.
Mine now says something about whispering in her ear, but what I whisper is completely ridiculous–it’s sexier than that but Jesus, you’ll come up with something. I’m also trying something by identifying with certain ideas that are cool, like talking about yoga, spirituality, Harry Potter, stuff like that. My baseline assumption is as with cold approach, the more polarizing you are, the better, but you want to stop just short of being directly explicit about what you want (we don’t open: yo, wanna fuck? Welcome back Tom). You know that I know that you know sort of thing.
4. Strike while the iron is hot.
She’s as much on there to get attention as much as anything, so at some point you need to give her some. I find that waiting long between texts is not a good strategy, and though I haven’t tried it yet, I wonder if it’s actually smart to go for the SDL with Tinder girls.
I mean they’re on there to hook up, right? Why not give them that?
We’ll see, but something I’m going to experiment with going forward.
However, even if you’re setting up the date for another day, have at least a few sessions where you’re texting back and forth 4-5 times or more. So far that seems to work much better than only every once in a while.
To this effect, I think the more quickly you can get her off the app and be a number in her phone, the better, and as with day game, the faster you get her out on a date, the better.
5. Swipe dating takes significant time; more convenient, but not as effective.
Messaging with chicks, changing photos, swiping, etc., takes more time than guys want to admit, so let’s just admit the truth: online is more convenient and in that sense easier than cold approach.
But the time spent is similar. Maybe greater.
Because even a true Chad is going to spend a lot of time filtering girls on Tinder. That’s a point I should have stated earlier–for a lot of chicks, Tinder is a thirst trap. They just want the attention and have no intention of coming out. So for every lay my guess is even very good looking guys are going to have to go through a lot of leads who end up being time wasters or who ultimately flake before the date.
So yes, Tinder is more convenient, but it’s far less effective in terms of delivering your value. Because when I day game, I can approach as many hot girls as I can find and present myself with the highest value possible: man to woman, IRL. Like, if I could cold approach the number of chicks I’ve swiped on this month, I’d have 40-50 lays (maybe more) with 8’s and 9’s.
Now, the numbers are obviously what Tinder makes possible that isn’t possible through day game or pick up. But again, results overall are much, much worse, with lower quality chicks.
Cold approach is the light and the truth: use online as a supplement, social circle, etc.
I’m going to continue another month with Tinder to see what happens. In the long run it’s not much money, and if I get a few lays out of it, fantastic. Remember to read the first post or better yet go to Andy’s stuff and look, because what I’m doing is his hack. Keep in mind, I’m paying for Tinder Gold. If you use the regular app, it’s going to be worse. Maybe a lot worse.
But day game is my true love. I feel it’s the most challenging, fun, and rewarding method of game there is. So I hope that going forward, most of my chicks come from day game–walking around a beautiful city, talking to beautiful women. What’s better than that?
Speaking of which, I went out for a day game session this past weekend, but I just tweeted it. Probably will continue to document my approaches on Twitter, and do field reports when I spot a pattern or something changes.
Good luck out there fellas!