RP theory: why I deleted Tinder and you should too…

We are meant to hunt, not farm.

It’s been an interesting ride these past six weeks trying online game again. To bring my story full circle, I actually have to credit swipe apps for my discovery of The Red Pill: it was so bad I realized I had to learn how to meet women IRL. I can’t remember exactly how I stumbled onto the TRP reddit sub, but I know it was because I was researching pick-up techniques online and trying to find any information I could on cold approach.

And as most of you know, once you’ve seen the truth, it’s impossible to unsee it.

You can skip this if you want–mostly bitching about life after TRP.

Quick stop here: at times, I’m torn about whether this is a good thing–I mean I realize that when push comes to shove, of course it is. But chasing women as I’ve done over the past several years is exhausting at times, and changing the dynamic from beta to alpha isn’t easy. I’ve also come to the conclusion that it robs us of certain opportunities with certain kinds of women–very K-selected chicks just aren’t going to choose a player. Everything they’ve been taught about society and how it works runs contrary to what she sees in me now.

Anyway, the probable reality I would have faced without understanding what TRP teaches is the same that faces most men today: a period of very romantic days leading to an LTR and then a marriage, which at best would have devolved into a mostly sexless existence and constant frame battles with my wife, ending in divorce or a kind of shitty partnership where we both tolerated each other until we kicked the bucket.

So yeah I’m glad I know what I know, but I can also see how things might be different and in some ways easier if I didn’t.

Back to the actual story: why I’m done trying to meet chicks online.

As advertised here on the site, I did actually manage to get laid on Tinder by two chicks who were quite a bit younger and at least equivalent to my SMV. I may be a lot of things, but dumb isn’t one of them, and quite honestly, if I thought I could continue getting a couple half dozen or more lays a year by QUALITY GIRLS staying on here, I might.

The problem is I’m not sure if that’s the case, which brings me to the first takeaway of why I’m done with swipe/online dating (SOD).

Problem #1: these are all unreliable platforms because the impetus is on making money, not getting you laid.

The above is why I’m skeptical of SOD working well for anyone, even super Chads–because Tinder doesn’t make money if you get laid by hot chicks for free.

Anyway, I signed up for Tinder Gold, basically because if you don’t, it’s rare you’ll get any matches; plus, in order to match with younger chicks, you have to falsely put your age as 24 when you create the profile, so I needed to be able to hide my age (for the whole gambit on how this can work, check out Kill Your Inner Loser).

The first time I signed up I went full BDSM profile as recommended, and it worked…for about a week. After which point I basically stopped getting any likes. I later boosted this profile on a Saturday night (didn’t work at all), and then again the week following on a Sunday morning (got quite a few matches, but mostly fat chicks).

After that, however, the likes completely fell off, only one or two every few days, always fat chicks.

So I deleted that profile and created a new one based on this site. Initially I got a ton of matches–58 or something like that…but as you might expect, only about 14 were 7’s or better (being generous).

However, after the initial boost (Tinder boosts new profiles for obvious reasons), my new hypothetically better profile got even fewer likes than the one I had before. OK, so maybe I just need to rely on boosts, I thought, so I waited until Sunday morning when my previous boost did well, and boosted the new profile.

Two likes: one a huge fat person and the other was a fake account with a link to cash app.

This is when I realized that as a platform, Tinder was totally unreliable. I’ve read a lot of theories about how much you should swipe, who to swipe on, etc., to game the fucking algorithm–but even that doesn’t work, because they’re constantly changing it. Which makes sense, because Tinder doesn’t care if you match with hot chicks and in some ways they don’t want you to–they want your money, so they dangle hot chicks and matches in front of you in such a way that you wind up paying for Super Likes and Boosts and Tinder Gold and all the bullshit.

Which leads me to the next problem…

Problem #2: Chicks online are even more phenomenally picky, flaky, and unreliable than they are IRL.

We know by now that modern women are unbelievably flighty creatures who mostly operate on emotional whims and capriciousness.

On Tinder, however, the rate of female bullshit goes exponential.

For starters–as anyone who’s been on Tinder knows–most of your matches will not even reply to the opener. For me it was probably 80% or more who didn’t even reply. They remained a match, but might as well have been non-existent.

I can think of a couple explanations for this:

  1. She’s using Tinder as a thirst trap–not sure how many chicks do this, but I’m guessing it’s a large percentage of female users. It’s a dopamine hit, nothing more. Some chicks will even have their instagram linked and you can see she’s got a boyfriend. Yes, they’re that shameless.
  2. She initially swiped right, but after re-evaluating the profile, she finds something not to like and doesn’t reply.
  3. She doesn’t like the opener.
  4. She’s a social retard and doesn’t know how to reply.
  5. She’s not a real account–conspiracy theory here, but it seems to me it would make sense for Tinder and other platforms to have really good looking fake accounts who match with guys to make it seem like it’s working when it’s not, and then of course she doesn’t reply, because she’s not a real person. I don’t know 100% if this is true, but if I someone put a gun to my head, I would guess that it is.

We could continue to go down this rabbit hole, but the point is that the of number of chicks who swipe right, 80-90% will be huge fat people, and of the few left who are actually attractive, 80% of those won’t reply.

But wait it gets worse: of the 20% who reply, another 80% of those will stop responding after a few messages. And of those who do respond to the point of giving her number, less than half will ever come out on a date.

Maybe those numbers are better if you’re a super Chad, but I’m not, and even guys I know who are much better looking and have much better pictures than me have found it to be pretty brutal.

So you’ve got an unreliable platform who’s trying to game you into spending more money, multiplied by the most unreliable portion of a population (remember, married chicks, chicks with BFs, chicks who have decent social circles, and/or chicks of higher quality AREN’T on Tinder) who’s known to be terrifically unreliable, made even more unreliable by the nature of the unreliable platform…which leads me to the next point.

Problem #3: Because of such high diminishing returns, it’s a tremendous drain of time and energy.

Guys like to say they only swipe on the toilet or when they’re not busy, but guys like to say a lot of things if they want to justify doing something, and from what I’ve found it’s just not true.

Like sure, I didn’t actually spend that much time swiping on Tinder (apparently this is one way you’re supposed to game the algorithm–swipe just enough and on the the right type of girls), but when you match with a chick you’ve got to come up with a cool opener (or she’s less likely to respond), and then if she responds, you’ve got to respond back, and you end up chasing a ton of dead leads and wasting more time that you might guess.

However, if you’re going to be on Tinder, chances are you’re on a couple of other platforms too–because why not? If SOD can work, why not multiply that out? So while I was on Tinder I went ahead and tried a few other platforms:

  1. Free Version of Bumble (mostly fat women)–the few matches I got stopped responding, just like on Tinder. Quality was so bad I saw no reason to bother with paying (one of the reasons I think these platforms are incentivized to have fake bot accounts).
  2. OK Cupid–very few attractive women, but I was getting a lot of likes, so I went ahead and paid to see what my kind of matches I was getting: almost all fat sweat hogs. The few attractive chicks I matched with didn’t reply.
  3. Plenty of Fish–ratio of fatties to hotties was like 20:1. Maybe worse? So bad I deleted after about four days.
  4. Meeting Mindful–actually quite a few hot chicks on here, but free version only lets you choose three a day, you can’t message unless you pay, and of my two weeks on there I only got four matches who I couldn’t see, but we can guess, right? Surely, all too fat or old.
  5. Happn–quality was dreadful. I couldn’t even see how many likes I got, but there weren’t very many profiles period (often times it said no one in my area), and as I said, mostly really fat and/or ugly.

All of this took time and energy: creating the profiles, some of which are quite detailed, editing and curating my photos, swiping, liking, matching and then occasionally texting with said matches, etc.

I want to emphasize the latter part especially, but it deserves it’s own section.

Problem #4: It’s a vibe vampire. I feel noticeably worse when I’m on Tinder and can’t cold approach as well.

Perhaps because I know that the platforms are either cheating me or I’m experiencing rejection on a biblical level.

Studies show that chicks now swipe left around 95% of the time or more–like, what women expect online is astonishingly unreasonable. I keep mentioning the big fat women who were mostly the only ones who matched with me, but I think that’s pretty indicative of what women think they deserve–maybe even what they sometimes get with SOD–guys who are like 3-4+ in terms of SMV.

I suppose that doesn’t bother some guys, but it does bother me. I don’t know particularly why it bothers me so much, but it really does, and that slowly kills your vibe. The irony is that guys like online because they don’t have to face the harsh rejections, but the reality is that your value to women PLUMMETS as soon as you create a profile and put your pics out there. You are literally being REJECTED CONSTANTLY.

Nash and Pat Stedman have been talking a lot about energy and I think there’s a lot to that when it comes to romance, dating, and women. And I can tell you how I know SOD had a negative effect on my frame: because when I went out during my last few sessions of daygame (live tweeted), I experienced AA almost like never before. I don’t know how to describe it, but I didn’t feel solid.

Still don’t.

And sure, I got over it–I still approached, and did OK. I should point out here that as always there are more no’s than yes’s in cold approach, but when I went out yesterday, if I had to guess at the reason I closed the last three sets (granted, final was an IG and predictably I haven’t heard back from her), but not the first five (and that’s after weaseling on at least 10 other chicks) was because it took me that long to finally feel comfortable in my own skin.

Here’s my guess as to why: because unless the app is working well for you–and for 99% of guys, it’s not going to–it’s tremendously frustrating. Only matching with fat chicks, having so many conversations go dark, etc., seeing all those pictures of really hot chicks and almost never matching with them–and all of this is basically for no good reason whatsoever:

  1. I mean, for fuck’s sake, I’m paying Tinder for a service they’re basically refusing to render, and,
  2. I’m actually reasonably good looking AND tall AND fit. I could understand if I looked like Quasimodo, but I don’t.

So even though you don’t have a chick straight blow you out or reject you like what happened to me on several occasions yesterday (I should point out here that in cold approach, rejection still stings but you also feel kind of awesome because right after it happens you realize it doesn’t matter and you’re proud of yourself for having the balls to approach), there’s an underlying sense of failure and rejection that sets in when you’re on a dating app–and guys I’m in a group chat with can tell you this: I’ve turned into a little bitch these past six weeks.

More on this…

Problem #5: the dynamic of male, female polarity is reversed. On Tinder, we’re women waiting to be chosen.

Seriously, that’s the truth guys.

Because in nature, or out in the world IRL, the alpha male choses his mates, and what we too often forget is that much of what triggers attraction for the female is THIS VERY ASPECT of the mating dance: he chose me. Ask any chick–that’s a big part of why they fall for the guys they fall hardest for.

That’s not to say his looks don’t matter–his physical characteristics have to match the frame of a highly desirable male–but whatever he looks like, he becomes much more attractive to a woman he’s choosing.

There’s a great line in The Great Gatsby that describes this–when Jordan Baker recalls Gatsby’s attraction to Daisy shortly after they’d first met: “He looked at her the way all women want to be looked at by a man.”

His attraction to her is part of what makes her hot for him. This is why women actually do respond well to feeling or seeing an erect cock, why they love getting fucked hard, why most like it when you face fuck, etc. Because the man is showing his desire for her.

On SOD this is reversed, and so the only way a woman can actually get turned on is by matching with a guy who’s super HAWT–several points of SMV higher than what she’s offering.

Problem #6: though it gives them tremendous abundance, chicks aren’t well served by SOD either.

So if we look at it from the girl’s perspective, Tinder isn’t all that great.

To begin with, if she’s a 6+, she’s going to match with almost every guy she swipes on. Most girls are dopamine addicts, so they’ll match with 50, 60, 70 guys or more, and then when she feels like going out, she’ll try to choose one: probably whoever she thinks is the hottest, but people are scientifically proven to be bad at making choices when we have too many, which means some of these chicks can’t even make a decision and end up staying in and posting to IG or Tik-Tok instead.

But then if she actually does show up on the date (a lot of them won’t–they get too socially anxious, and I should add a lot of times it’s not a date, it’s a hook up and she’s supposed to go straight to his house), what happens is basically one of three things:

  1. They hook up and fuck.
  2. They actually have a date and don’t hook up.
  3. She’s DTF, but the guy can’t escalate.

And then, shortly after, regardless of what happens, she’s ghosted.

We know this is because she’s probably going several points above her own SMV (hot enough to fuck, but not for a relationship), but chicks either can’t or won’t acknowledge this. Additionally, if they did have sex it was probably shit, because younger women tend to match with guys near their age, and young men are usually shitty in bed, either because they try too hard or don’t care and just want to get that nut (if you’ve ever fucked a girl lower that your SMV you know this–it’s just kinda hard to care that much).

So the reality for women on Tinder is this: it works if she’s into shitty casual sex, but she’s not likely to get into a relationship this way (which is what most or nearly all women want–seems to me, chicks who say they’re poly are typically still partnered: they’ve just gotten bored of the guy and want some fresh dick in their life).

This is my guess as to why people on all sides express so much frustration with online dating, and particularly why there was a time it was really good back in the day, but not anymore–because women are starting to realize it’s not that great for them either.

Problem #7: cold approach is a learnable skill we can improve upon, but you can’t really get better at SOD.

Of course, the caveat is you can get better looking and/or get better pictures, but that’s about it, and you’re going to be limited to whatever that means in terms of your baseline SMV, plus the limits of the modality–remember, Tinder wants to make money, and they don’t make money if you get to fuck hot chicks for free, not matter how Chadly you are.

On the flip side, I can get better at day game or night game. Every time I go out I learn more: I stumble across better venues/areas, I invent new openers, I learn to convey sexuality through my body language, I can modify my voice and speech tonality, etc. There’s almost an infinite number of things I can do to increase my efficiency at cold approach, which makes it challenging, fun, and interesting–aspects of game that are absent with SOD.

Conclusion: unless it’s working for you, and you’re actually banging hot chicks–most guys are fucking 5s and 6s online–you’re better off learning cold approach.

I should mention here that I’m not saying it can’t work, because for some guys it does–it kinda even worked for me–but to my mind the costs far outweigh the benefits.

And the reason is that it’s never going to work all that well. For 99% of guys that’s just the hard truth. I also think that because of number six, we’re going to see that women respond more and more to cold approach and less and less to guys trying to hunt them down online.

The advantages are obvious:

  1. You’re different. You’re BOLD. If she’s a 7 or above she’s got a ton of orbiters and by approaching her IRL, you’re not one of them. You’re in a different, more powerful category, and because so many guys are pussies these days, you probably stand alone. She may still reject you, but you’ve given yourself the best chance possible.
  2. You’re going to trigger that attraction that comes to women when a desirable man chooses them. This isn’t possible online by the very nature of the platform.
  3. Your energy is preserved and enhanced because you’re not staring at your phone or a computer screen all day. You’re either focusing on your mission or you’re gaming IRL, but your attention isn’t fragmented by different apps and various leads and trying to game algorithms. You can be present in a way I’d argue most people can’t given everyone’s addiction to smart phones and social media.
  4. No one can take cold approach away from you. Ever. Once you get good at day game or night game or wherever you source women, it’s like riding a bike: you have a skill that your body and mind remember–and one that you can use for the rest of your life until you age out of the sexual marketplace.
  5. It makes us active as opposed to passive. Like, now that I’ve deleted the app, I have only one avenue of meeting women: IRL. That’s an extra kick in the ass to approach, whenever and wherever you can, or to at least make it a part of your weekly routine.

Do you want to be a hunter or a farmer?

I’ll make one last analogy here that I think applies and that I like because it carries even more weight when we think about evolutionary biology: meeting women through dating apps or online is like being a farmer; learning cold approach pick up is like being a hunter.

Now, if we want to make the analogy accurate, we should state that as a farmer, the soil’s got almost zero nutrients, most of your crops fail, your source of water is unreliable, and even when you do manage to grow something you have no idea why it grew and can’t rely on growing it again.

And for the hunter, I’m not going to lie: it’s still hard. Lots of times you’ll miss the shot. Your prey is extremely wary and spooks at the first sign of incongruence–sometimes for no good reason at all. But at the same time, the opportunities to shoot and hunt are present almost every single day of the year and our prey is numerous: beauty isn’t rare. On top of this, if you hit your mark, she’s probably yours–girls who truly hook through cold approach tend to be very solid leads and will tend to respond to texts and come out (if you text her and she doesn’t reply, she didn’t hook, and 9/10 times it means you need to work on your game or she was giving the number as a way of getting out of the interaction).

What’s interesting is that this analogy makes sense in evolutionary terms as well: hunting is more natural, and living as a hunter/gatherer is more nutritious (assuming you can get enough to eat–but we’d do well to remember that starvation was a huge problem until we invented industrial agriculture and in some parts of the world it’s still a problem). On the other hand, the rise of agriculture has a lot to do with why so many people are obese or sick–because we’re eating in a way that’s out of whack with regard to how we evolved.

The same is true of SOD: for most of us, the outcomes aren’t good, and even if the process yields them sometimes, it’s not healthy.

So yeah, to be honest, even if I get my body where I want it to be: big, ripped, and less than 10% body fat, I’m not going back.

I deleted Tinder–and you should too.

10 thoughts

  1. I think I’m the only young beginner guy in game who has never used a dating app. I see it as a pointless use of time when I can approach someone and have a genuine connection.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. This is great .. My sense is that you enjoy cold approach, you see it as a path to conquering yourself and you have woven a personal narrative that is completely congruent with your personality / skill set / attributes. The metaphor of the hunter / farmer is completely on point.
    One of the things many people in the manosphere don’t address is how to maximize you’re RoI when you are time poor. I work Monday – Friday 50 hours a week. Par for the course for a lot of urban professional men. After work I need to devote an hour and a half including travel time to the gym every day if I want to stay in peak physical shape. (I’m late 40’s) Factor in recovery and sleep means the week is too full and I am to a weekend warrior when it comes to approaching.
    I’ve been to quite a few American cities and young (<28) slim (<120 pounds) pretty (not stunningly beautiful) girls are not that commonly seen walking around alone. I’ve frequently done 1-2 hours of daygame on a Saturday or Sunday and not seen one girl alone I am that excited to approach. Part of the hunter mindset is having the patience to wait for your prey, but being time poor, patience is not my strong suit.
    Contrast this to the Seeking Arrangement type sites. For every 10 online approaches I will get 5-6 numbers, weed out 2-3 who want financial incentives leaving me with 2-3 dates and typically one girl who I am attracted to enough in real life to sleep with.
    Reading your site it has occurred to me that night game might provide more viable targets but once again I run into time considerations. Per your own advice its clear a big part of success is being the last dick standing which
    is going to require me staying out way later than is optimal given my work and fitness obligations.
    In the end how men solve their approach question is a personal choice. Like many successful players I think
    you see it as part of a bigger question of core identity and who you are as a man. I have always reduced it down to ‘given my time constraints what’s the quickest way to get a pretty girl in my bed.’ My way is arguably more efficient (at least for me) but I get no sense of becoming a better more self actualized man that good cold approachers enjoy.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I second this ^. Spot on and exactly my feelings on daygame vs SA game. Also in the same boat as Mark J in regards to age, time constraints, efficiency, etc. Mark, I’m interested in hearing more about and comparing experiences with you on SA. Ping me on Twitter @YoloPlayboy or email techmagnate2@gmail.com.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Seeking arrangement is an interesting thing–something I know other players have used to good effect, but I haven’t mentioned it at their request. Since the cat’s out of the bag–with you at least–I’ll say what I think about that: good on you. If it works, it works. I paid for a month, but where I live it doesn’t seem to be all that great: there just aren’t enough attractive women on there to make it worth the time. The other thing is what happens if/when those kinds of sites go away or change, and yet another consideration is if there are going to be enough new girls entering the space for it to be a renewable resource.

      > I’ve frequently done 1-2 hours of daygame on a Saturday or Sunday and not seen one girl alone I am that excited to approach. Part of the hunter mindset is having the patience to wait for your prey, but being time poor, patience is not my strong suit.

      So, what I’d say is that this is a common problem for guys, but one that’s easily solved! I need to write a full post on this, but guys should be approaching all the time. There’s no reason to be trapped in the idea that you have to do Tom Torero style 2 hours, 10 approaches. Approach at the coffee shop, grocery store, restaurant, wherever you are when you see a cute girl. Approach!

      The other thing guys should do is plan to go to events. In most major cities around the world, there are going to be several big events going on any weekend. Instead of doing day game in the city, go to the event and run game there–farmer’s markets, fairs, festivals, anywhere there are going to be large groups of people, particularly large groups of women.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. Great article, mirrors my feelings exactly. When I cold approach, I feel great, like a man and like someone who conquers his fears, even if I don’t collect any numbers that day.
    Being on Tinder makes me feel edgy, nervous, frustrated, stupid. It’s just a huge headfuck and vibe suck.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. People don’t use SOD to get what they can easily get in real life. Good quality men with wide social circles seeking committed relationships don’t look for them online because they don’t have to. The same goes for attractive women seeking short term hookups.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Solid points and re-inspires me to give up SOD and restart daygame despite the obstacles with it. I agree with your points about how SOD gives a bad vibe from the constant rejection. At least in cold-approach, if a girl rejects she might at least show some interest. With SOD it’s just like… shooting your wad in the dark.

    Your bit about analysis paralysis is a good point too. Most girls I talk to about Tinder mention being “overwhelmed” by it (the number of matches/messages). This is their own fault, all they have to do is stop swiping for a while… but it’s something that every girl seems to continue for their dopamine hit of a match without the risk of texting, let alone dating.

    It’s also “good” to read you’re fit and attractive with a good profile and even then not banging 8/9’s consistently with it. Good in the sense that it’s good data. I was considering trying out badoo, but after reading this I’m convinced not to even bother.

    Like

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