Sometimes, not being able to sleep turns out to be a blessing–not sure if any of you have trouble sleeping, but in my experience it’s often better to just get your ass out of bed and do something besides play on your phone.
Which is what I did for two hours before finally getting up at 3am my time. Oh well. Fuck it. May as well do some writing. At least with this Coronavirus shit I don’t have to show up for work.
Though most of my screen time in the wee hours was spent scrolling like a mindless drone and playing a stupid video game (I’m far from perfect, so sue me), some at least was productive, and there was a strange synergy to two posts I read: one from Redquest and the other from Kill to Party.
The one from RQ touches on something we chatted about privately with another player re: age of consent and gaming younger chicks. The topic was about how young is too young when it comes to cold approach–in this case day game.
My take was: “If she thinks it’s creepy…then it kinda is.”
That may be a strange way to define age of consent, but in some ways it seems correct. Go read RQ’s post for the full discussion, but one of his points is that some young chicks get it and some don’t–that is, some women understand at a young age that older guys want to fuck them and they don’t mind. Hell, some portion of girls (maybe a third) prefer older guys–often much older.
The ones who don’t, in my experience, don’t really understand sexual dynamics, and as RQ mentions, that’s partially not their fault because parents and the school system and our larger society like to pretend that men and women are the same, when anyone who’s not a complete moron knows they’re not.
A lot of teenagers–and I say this with all due respect because we were all there once–are morons. I don’t mean they’re unintelligent–they just don’t understand how the world works, partially because of the above, but mostly just because they’re young and it takes awhile to learn how life works.
As most of us understand, however, girls mature faster than boys, and I’d argue that coming into their beauty as most girls do, around 15-16, teaches them lessons guys just aren’t ever going to get unless they get rich and famous at a very young age.
Because let’s be honest: at that age, there are a lot of girls almost any sexually mature guy, from 16 to 60, would have sex with if you took away the consequences, from a looks-only perspective (maturity is another matter, but we’ll come to that). On the flip side, what society fails to recognize is that some of those same girls–maybe even a lot–given the opportunity, would fuck a much older guy like Brad Pitt or George Clooney.
This is where there was synergy with something Andy wrote on KTP. He was talking about a 19 year old girlfriend he had,
“If you couldn’t guess, having a kid girlfriend is fucking hilarious. If you’re riding a wave of indignation, where you suddenly feel righteous flipping a double-bird to the world around you, there is no better way to do it. People will stare and if you’re not ready to play to it like a bad guy pro-wrestler, this type of social norm bucking isn’t for you- and maybe you’re the guy waiting while she’s doing girls’ night at the book store. The married couple with the stroller will shoot dirty looks, but you’ll catch hubby stealing a glimpse of her ass every time. The blue-haired checkout girl at Target won’t hide her disgust; the lonely boy working the deli counter at the grocery store will stare longingly- another dagger through his heart.”
Granted, this was about a decade ago, but my guess is that not a whole lot has changed: publicly, most people think a much older guy dating a younger girl is icky unless you’re with only male friends, in which case they think it’s awesome and want to see her nudes.
However, I think we’re going to see this change quite a bit in the next 5-10 years–perhaps one of the social stigmas we may see drop away in the wake of this pandemic mess (thesis: when you see an existential crisis up close and realize life has a time limit, people tend to drop their bullshit–I suppose we’ll see).
Because here’s the thing: 10 or more years ago, it was entirely possible that a 16-year-old girl could stay unaware or naive about the power of her beauty until well into her 20’s, by which point it had started to fade.
Now, with IG, Tik-Tok, and swipe dating, it’s nearly impossible. As soon as girls can start posting cute pics online, the attention they get from being pretty floods in, and it’s addictive, meaning that for attractive younger girls, they’re figuring out pretty quickly that what they possess is extremely valuable.
Now I’ll be honest, a lot of them don’t come close to actualizing that value. A lot of them date chodes from their high school and then serial monogamize their way through college mostly dating guys their own age, and the chicks who don’t go to college often end up choosing from the losers who didn’t move out of their parent’s house and work pizza delivery jobs, which seems like good money when you don’t have to pay for rent or food, but turns out doesn’t go very far unless home base is mom’s basement. No, the fact is we often frame things as if women are perfect actors in the SMP, when the reality is, as Krauser notes, women make a lot of mistakes in love and dating just like guys do.
That said, a lot of younger girls are starting to realize their power in the SMP, and the fact is that the only way most of them can get commensurate value is by dating a guy who’s significantly older, late 20’s or even in his 30’s or 40’s.
Indeed, the biggest reason more girls don’t date older guys is the societal perception that it’s icky. And why does this perception exist?
Because as “woke” as our society claims to be, we’re still living in a paradigm where we perceive women–especially young women–to be vulnerable in a way that men aren’t, especially when it comes to sex, and especially when it comes to sex with older men.
In the past, the argument was more reasonable: men had a lot more power in society than women, and the framework of relationships was as a monogamous couple moving toward marriage. The risk was that older men could seduce much younger women with the veiled promise of something more serious, and then leave her, heartbroken if not with a baby on the way and no man around to take care of her (remember, this is pre-birth control). And why wouldn’t he marry her? Because it would have broken the social code–men outside of Hollywood simply didn’t marry much younger women and it would be extremely strange to do so.
However, today, what are the real objections?
It can’t be economics–women can earn their own money these days. They can even earn it by fucking older men as a sugar baby if they want.
Nor can it be power or agency: at the age of 18, she’s a legal adult, and women are just as capable of making decisions as men, right? Some in the manosphere may not agree with that, but I’d argue in some ways, women are more capable of making mature decisions at a young age than their male peers.
Finally, pregnancy’s not really a concern like it used to be. In a world where a 19 year-old could end up pregnant if she hooked up with an older guy and marriage was impractical, that’s a big problem. But with birth control, the consequences are next to nil.
So the only real valid objection I can see is maturity–obviously, at some point, a young girl really is too naive to make these sorts of decisions. However, by 18, most girls today know enough about sexuality and male desire to know what it is they’re dealing with, and the best indication is the girl herself.
If she thinks it’s icky–for example, a girl you day game approach–then she’s not ready. Doesn’t really matter whether she’s 16 or 21. BTW, I’m not advising guys to break the law: whatever your local age of consent laws are, you should certainly abide by them.
But otherwise, assuming she’s able to legally consent and digs you, who cares? She doesn’t. And if she doesn’t, no one else should really give a damn either.
Now, I suspect the real objection–which of course isn’t ever explicitly stated as RQ points re: how society “understands” sexuality–is two-fold:
- Though we like to say women are “free and independent and just as capable of men,” large swaths of society, from trad-cons to feminists, don’t actually believe it. They–the feminists at least–want it both ways: they want all the freedom and opportunity of a world where men and women are viewed the same, but they don’t want the responsibilities that come with it. This is why we so often get the mixed messages of “you go girl” sexuality (Mr. V shared a Tik-Tok the other day where a mom had cum all over her face post BJ–I was going to link to it, but it’s been deleted), with the, “he’s a horrible monster who’s taken advantage of you,” or as RQ put it: Women don’t think that women can make adult decisions and be held accountable for those decisions.
- It undercuts the sexual marketplace for older women.
For a larger discussion on the former, read the link.
The latter, however, I suspect is the more important of the two when it comes to why people truly don’t like it when older guys date younger chicks. Because women–especially beyond their late 20’s–know it’s bad for them. It’s hard to be a 30 something spinster knowing that your male peers can date girls 10-15 younger than you without consequence. And women who have boyfriends or are married feel the same way, lest their men start pining for younger, hotter as they’re hitting the wall.
And as Andy points out in that hilarious excerpt from his post, the blue-pill beta male doesn’t like it because his ship has sailed and he knows he can’t pull it off, and the high school or college kid is pissed because he knows he can’t compete with the gravitas of an older man.
But this is also why I think things are going to change as society adjusts to the deregulated SMP. Young guys are going to start realizing that they get their power later in life, and as fewer people get married, there are less cucks around to be upset about it or care.
As for women, older women are always going to be jealous of younger women and try to shame them and the older men they date, but think about it: if you were a hot young girl, would you really take seriously the concerns of a woman in her late 30’s who’s unmarried and likely to spend the rest of her life alone?
Probably not. Just like players aren’t going to listen to married guy tell them about how wonderful his life is when they know the reality is he gets his dick wet twice a year and one of those times is on his birthday.
And that’s where this whole thing is starting to fall apart. Younger women in these next few generations are going to see a huge cohort of their older sisters, aunts, friends, etc., go into their late 30’s and become invisible to men, destined to spend their lives alone and childless, while at the same time being made painfully aware of how unprepared their male peers are to be good mates. I mean, let’s just be honest, very few 22-year-old guys–even very good looking guys–are going to have the kind of frame a hot 22-year-old chick wants, especially as most of them have been made timid and socially incompetent by smart phones and video games.
So what’s a girl to do: date older guys.
I guess I’ll use myself as an example, but plenty of other players with more experience than me have found the same thing. In my run, I’ve slept with nearly 15 women (been on dates with more than 20) under 30 since the Summer of 2018. None of them had any issue with my age, and that’s including three who were 20. To give context, I’m nearly 40.
With regard to the sex, there’s an energy and excitement the dynamic of older man with younger woman brings–the girl can finally let herself go because the older guy knows what he’s doing, and if he’s a true player, he unleashes his sexual desire in a way most young men don’t have the confidence to tap into. The result is something pure and amazing that simply doesn’t exist with other dynamics.
I’d like to say that older women can bring that same level of excitement–and there’s no real reason they can’t, assuming she’s capable of being feminine and sexy–but most often they don’t. Something about how older women fuck seems too calculating, like they can’t fully let themselves go for fear of losing power somehow.
Maybe I’m wrong about that or haven’t met the right kinds of older women; my experiences are obviously anecdotal, so part of that could be my fault. Who knows?
Regardless, I do know that being with younger women is hot–and they think it’s hot too. And because of that, I think going forward we’ll see fewer and fewer objections to older guys dating younger women.
So how young is too young?
For players it’s simple: is she old enough to consent? If so, she’s old enough. The only other barometer is the girl: if she thinks it’s creepy, it is–she’s not ready.
But if not…game on.