As a guy who’s pretty vocal about not liking OLD, I feel like I need to explain some shit, because a lot of guys on Twitter and in private messaging have been like: “dude, STFU, you keep getting laid using apps like Tinder and Bumble, yet you constantly complain about OLD. What gives?”
A totally fair and reasonable criticism.
So allow me to explain, as someone who has 4 notches (I got another one this past Monday–nothing special so I didn’t bother with a field report) from OLD this year, why I dislike it so much.
OLD sets a bad precedent for women–it makes them worse people in a number of ways, as well as distorting the Sexual Marketplace overall.
Decent looking women (5+) essentially have unlimited abundance online: they can get a date or sex anytime they want it, not to mention attention from tons of thirsty dudes, IG and snapchat followers, etc.
Worse, because this is the ONLY way for most men to meet women, there’s a mismatch in terms of SMV–I’ve often referenced the fact that women can match with a guy who’s +2 or even +3 in terms of SMV, something a lot of guys in the game community have also noticed. This then becomes her floor in terms of what she thinks she can get–and MOST girls don’t understand that, generally, a guy who’s that much better looking isn’t going to have a long term relationship with her, but it doesn’t stop them from trying, or thinking that it’s possible.
In the end, I’d argue this leads to a massive contraction of the sexual marketplace, because, from the female standpoint, here’s what she thinks:
- I can get a man anytime I want. All I need to do is download an app.
- I can be extremely selective, only dating men who are 6’+, very successful and good looking.
- I can flake, be unreliable, be capricious and almost absurdly selective and fussy, because of #1 and #2.
When you add to this the fact that she’s also getting constant simp attention from IG, Tik-Tok, and SnapChat, the cumulative effect is that women have much less urgency when it comes to dating and relationships. Because not only has she gotten the message that men are disposable, she’s also under the false impression that HQ men are abundant and readily available when she’s ready to cash out. Moreover, the implicit message is that women need to bring very little to a relationship in order to retain a man’s interest. She can shave her head, wear short hair, dress like a man, and be otherwise completely untethered to reality so long as she’s got that warm, wet hole between her legs.
And we know this is true, because women are SHOCKED–shocked I tell you–when they hit 35 and suddenly can’t find a guy who wants to stick around. We see this constantly from women writing about dating in places like the New Yorker, The Cut, The Atlantic, Medium, Reddit, and more feminist leaning publications and blogs.
Now, a reasonable person would look at this and pretty quickly figure out that their standards were too high–they would ask themselves what they’re bringing to the table and realize that it needs to be commensurate with what they’re asking for in return.
But problem: women don’t accept agency or responsibility for life outcomes, even as they’ve gained equality of opportunity.
Unfortunately, as we know, most women aren’t that reasonable–and part of it’s not their fault. They enter the SMP with massive power at a young age and it’s only toward the end that they ever struggle meeting guys or retaining our attention. But perhaps what’s even more insidious is that our society still tells women they’re not responsible for life outcomes in the same way men are.
I was telling my dad the other day that our society is now fairly equal in terms of rights, but we still don’t expect women to take agency for their decisions the way we do with men. Women can attend any college they can get into, get any job they qualify for, and they’re mostly free of the explicit expectation to get married or have children (although it eats at them constantly)–she can just be a dog mom or an aunt, instead, right?
However, even as women have attained relative equality, they haven’t taken on a similar level of responsibility for their life circumstances. It’s always still a man’s fault when things go south–it’s unfair, he wasn’t good enough, he’s not a real man, men are shit, etc.
Now, in some ways, it was fair to say that in the 50’s or 60’s, because there wasn’t really much a woman could do otherwise–she had to wait to be chosen and likely relied on a man for economic support. In that context, the story made sense because she had no real agency in terms of changing those outcomes.
The problem is that this narrative didn’t die with feminism–to this day we still see white knighting and a general unwillingness to ascribe agency to female behavior. The Aziz Ansari debacle comes to mind, where the woman basically did a bunch of sexual acts voluntarily, then regretted it and cancelled the guy’s career.
And she got away with it because most people were unwilling to say, “look honey, you exchanged oral sex with the guy–you gave him every indication you wanted to fuck, and then you decided you didn’t want to do that. Totally fine, but you don’t then get to turn around and claim sexual assault. You were as responsible for what happened as he was.”
Instead they said he was a monster, a sexual predator, etc., and no one’s heard from the poor guy since.
A woman RQ dated told a similar story years after their connection, about how he had somehow taken advantage of her, etc., when no, the reality was she was just as responsible for what happened as he was.
The recent encounter I had with this bumble chick is a good reminder of this: I was very upfront with her about the fact that I was non-monogamous and not looking for an LTR, but she just flat ignored that when she decided that was what she wanted, accused me of lying, and then went crazy.
What story do you think she’s telling her friends? That we had consensual sex and I told her I was non-monogamous, or that I’m a lying asshole who’s trying to fuck his way through the dating apps, a piece of shit who’s afraid of commitment.
That, in fact, is a perfect example: women who can’t get commitment like to say that men are afraid of commitment. But it’s an incomplete statement–the true statement is that he’s afraid of commitment WITH YOU. Again, a normal person would ask why? Why didn’t he want to commit? Was it because he’s an 8 and you’re a 6 at best in your pictures? Did you offer him the kind of support and feminine affection and attention men want, or just sex? Did you text him, bring gifts, plan the occasional date, cook him food, or make his life better/easier in some way?
If not, it’s no surprise he didn’t stick around, but most women never get that far: it’s the man’s fault and that’s the end of it.
Theory: hypergamy is far more advanced than society realizes.
I’ve been chatting with some other players on a private thread, and one of them asked a good question: if even we at times, as players, struggle to get chicks, what’s it like for the average guy? What’s it like for the below average guy?
A: it’s bad.
One of the reasons I think I’ve gotten some lays off OLD is that I’m tall, and relatively good looking (although my pics are still shitty)–guys should understand that OLD is purely blackpill. The only rule: be good looking, preferably tall.
And even then, being a decent looking guy who’s tall, it’s still not as if I’m swimming in women on Tinder or Bumble–it’s more the case that I catch a chick’s eye here or there, and then of those, maybe 1 or 2 come out.
But what I’ve started to realize is that hypergamy is far more advanced than even redpill aware guys realize. Now, if you’re one of those guys who doesn’t think hypergamy matters, you can fuck right off, because it absolutely matters, and it’s having a huge effect on the SMP.
When Bumble girl freaked out and went crazy, the weird part was is that because I held frame and was calm and reasonable, in the end she was willing to continue seeing me knowing full well that I was intending to fuck other girls. In other words, even though it wasn’t what she wanted, she was willing to share a HQ guy with other women in lieu of retaining exclusive commitment from a lower quality guy.
Obviously, that’s just one chick, but I think that reality is pretty widespread, and OLD has massively accelerated this trend where many women are truly only willing to fuck the very best looking guys to which she has access–the other guys? Invisible, like 40 year old women are to most players.
To be fair, women have always been hypergamous, but in the past, she might have access to at most, maybe 50 dudes–the guys she worked with, the guys in her social circle, and the guys she might meet at a bar, coffee shop, etc.
Now, any woman with a smartphone who lives in a metropolitan area has access to literally 100K+ men, and she can filter through 100s of them in a matter of minutes with a flick of the wrist.
So whereas before her options were limited and she couldn’t afford to ignore guys or be super picky and flaky, now her options are seemingly infinite, and she can be as ridiculous as she wants.
All of this has led to a catch-22 we’re all caught in: women, naturally, only want to date the best men she has access to, but most also want a relationship moving toward marriage, but the best men she has access to won’t offer that, because why?
The guys who are able to use OLD effectively–who are very good looking and match a lot–don’t need to settle down. They’re able to achieve the male sexual strategy which is to fuck as many girls as we can.
The guys who can’t use OLD might be willing to settle down or have a relationship, but by and large they won’t be able to match or retain the match assuming he can get her out.
So in the end, I’d argue that OLD has an extremely negative impact on the SMP that makes it difficult for most men to get sex, and just as if not more difficult for most women to get a relationship.
And that, friends, is why I hate it so much, even as I’m willing to use it and sometimes get laid for my efforts.
But RPD, what about the light, truth, and the way: cold approach pick-up?
Cold approach is the antidote for the modern man looking to meet women he otherwise can’t meet on OLD. The reason is that cold approach builds a narrative between you and the girl: there’s a story she can tell–plus, she’s seen your value in the flesh, which is far more than 6 pictures and a shitty bio can ever accomplish.
Make no mistake: cold approach, whether day or night game works–and for most guys it’s going to be far more effective than OLD.
Here’s the caveat, however, that a lot of PUAs don’t want to admit: you’re still competing against the apps. Now, you’ve got a much better chance, because she’s not going to think of you the same way she thinks about a guy who’s on Tinder–you’re in a separate category, like a guy she knows through work or social circle–but there’s still that Chad she matched with in the mix, and that’s just a fact. On top of that, because the apps give women so much abundance, the chicks you game using cold approach are still often flighty and flaky as fuck–that part is now largely baked into female behavior. These days, even older chicks can be super flaky.
So I guess what I’d say is that even though we can somewhat circumvent OLD by using pick-up, we’re still worse off given the fact the apps exist.
I said before that I was going to delete Tinder and not use dating apps anymore, and then COVID happened, and it was the only option.
That’s still the case, although I was able to get out and day game recently. And, in light of that, once things get back to normal, I’ll go back to cold approach, probably exclusively…
I guess the final point I’ll make is that, ultimately, OLD isn’t going to be the answer for most guys. Maybe you get a few lays here and there like I did, but unless you’re top 5% in terms of looks, you’re just not going to be very successful, especially with more attractive women.
So when you see me bitch about OLD, that’s why. Because it’s not about just me–it’s about the SMP as a whole, and the fact I care about the lives of other men, not just my own personal notch count.