Came across a recent post on r/PurplePillDebate, “Male thirst is the cause of male sexlessness”, and I wanted to explain why this is not only wrong, but a massive misunderstanding and mischaracterization of the Sexual Marketplace (SMP).
The author’s central thesis is as follows:
“Think about it, if men didnt give women so much attention and options we wouldt have the pick of the lot & we would be forced to fuck guys in our league. But the fact that I can get a guy who is objectively more attractive than me makes my looksmatch pale in comparison and seem less desirable.”
First off, I’ll say it’s nice to see a woman acknowledging that the modern sexual marketplace is greatly skewed in her favor—mostly because of SOD (swipe/online dating)—meaning she’s able to date guys far above her “looksmatch.”
Two things however, before we proceed to a larger discussion of the SMP as it stands currently.
1. Women have better photos to post.
A huge reason women match +2 of their SMV (sexual market value aka attractiveness—if you want to think of a scale 1-10, a woman who is a 6 can often match with guys who are 8s) is that SOD is predicated on photos, and women almost universally have better photos. Surprising, as I’ve not seen a whole lot of discussion of this fact.
The reason is simple: women are more narcissistic than men when it comes to the validation of their beauty.
The thirst men have for ACTUAL SEX and then display on dating apps, is matched or perhaps surpassed by the thirst women have for validation—to be told they’re beautiful, attractive, etc. This is quite obvious if you look at the evidence; I submit for the court’s consideration:
- Exhibit A: IG
- Exhibit B: Tik-Tok
- Exhibit C: SnapChat
- Exhibit D: fashion, makeup, shopping, accessorizing, tattoos, etc.
In the era of smart phones with high quality cameras, this means women have much better pictures of themselves to put on the apps, because they take more pictures of themselves in terms of sheer volume, and the primary aim of those pictures is to look pretty.
Consider the infamous “fishing” picture women love to make fun of when men put this on their profile. Understand, this picture was NOT INTENDED to make the guy look good—it was intended to show he caught a nice fish and to display authenticity, probably taken by his dad or friend or fishing guide who’s not going to take the picture twice or redo it if the guy doesn’t look good. It is simply a part of who he is and what he enjoys in life.
Contrast this with a similar picture a woman might take, say at an event with friends. I’ll note that anyone who’s done this will admit the photo taking session is almost without question longer and more formal when women are involved. Indeed, when men hang out together, there are often entire events or weekends where almost no photos are taken.
Anyway, when group or other photos are taken in the context of a mixed group or women only, one or more of the women in said photos will want to see them, and then often demand that the photos be retaken because, “I look fat” or “my arms look too big” or “my face looks weird.” The goal is not to display authenticity, and documenting the event is secondary—the primary goal is to “look good.”
Please understand, I’m not making some kind of moral statement or judgment, good or bad, but to simply note that this is what happens, and that there’s a difference with regard to how many and what kind of pictures are taken by men vs. women.
Now, multiply that difference out over years—both that women are taking far more photos of themselves and that the primary aim of those photos is to look pretty. The net result is that the typical woman is going to have much better photos than the typical man, so that a woman who’s a 6 in terms of SMV, will look far better than a man who’s similarly attractive.
2. Fewer women participate on SOD.
For every woman, there are something like 4 to 5 men, depending on the app. If there were similar numbers of men and women on dating apps, the discrepancy that allows women to match +2 of their SMV would not exist. My guess is the “looks match” still wouldn’t be equal, but the inequality that currently exists wouldn’t be nearly as bad as it is now.
Women aren’t nearly as thirsty as men.
This brings us to the heart of the problem: why don’t equal numbers of men and women participate? The answer is that women just aren’t as thirsty. Women who are genuinely attractive can often meet men in real life, whether through social circle, at work, or out and about. So, no need for them to be on the apps.
Another cohort of women don’t want to be bothered with dating at the moment, for whatever reason. I recently asked out a woman at a coffee shop, only to be told, despite the fact she thought I was “handsome”, that she’d just gotten out of a relationship and wasn’t really wanting to date right now.
Here’s an even crazier story: a friend (guy 1) of mine happens to be friends with another guy (guy 2) who’s the friend of a famous NBA player (for the sake of anonymity I’ll withhold names). Guy 1 knows a girl who’s this NBA player’s “type,” so he reached out to her and offered to set the two of them up.
Her reply: no.
Now, there could be many understandable reasons why she said no to the set up, but the point here is that no guy would ever refuse such an arrangement, nor would any guy say no to a “pretty” girl he met at a coffee shop who wanted to go on a date because he’d just gotten out of a relationship.
So here’s the crux of the issue: men being less “thirsty” would not necessarily make women more thirsty, nor is there any is guarantee it would make them less picky. Women are hypergamous—they want to be with the best possible guy who’s available to them. Fewer guys on the apps might mean fewer matches, but that wouldn’t stop women from swiping on the hottest guys and sometimes matching with them, partially because of the discrepancy between photo quality I outlined at the beginning.
So, let’s discuss what would actually happen if men were less thirsty: less sex. That’s it.
And it brings me to a key distinction between men and women in the sexual marketplace: men take responsibility, women take advantage.
OP essentially states this in her thesis: it’s not our fault, might as well take advantage. It goes back to that old truism, which is that women often say, of sex, “it just happened.”
What any man knows, however, is that it did not “just happen.” He had to reach out, propose the date, plan the date, and move things to a place where sex could happen, whether his place, her place, etc. If they were out with friends at a club, or at a party, again, in all likelihood he had to approach her, make things sexual, escalate, and then figure out a way for sex to happen.
Men take responsibility; women take advantage.
Plus, here’s the thing: men, by our very nature, are thirsty!
Our primary drive in life is to have sex with and impregnate as many (attractive?) women as possible. That may not be our explicit goal in the modern world, but that’s what our DNA is telling us to do every second of every single day.
I put the “attractive?” because of course, men want to sleep with beautiful women first, but given the choice between sex with a less attractive woman or no sex, most men choose sex.
Most women will not make that choice, assuming she can suppose a better mate will come along at some point. This is where the internet infinity fallacy can have a devastating impact on women, because their apparent abundance of choice leads them to believe that deferring is preferable to choosing and comes at no cost. This is the fallacy part of the equation, because there is a cost, often an irreversibly negative one, but it’s hidden—or at least, not obvious.
And here’s where the rubber meets the road: yes, with SOD, women can often match with men far above their SMV. But the result is to more rapidly accelerate the death of monogamy.
Women often complain that guys don’t want relationships, won’t settle down, don’t want to get married—that apps are only good for hookups. Well ladies, why do you think that is? Do you really think a guy is going to settle down for a long term relationship, let alone marry you, when it’s clear there’s not an image match? When it’s pretty obvious he’s scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of a woman he’s willing to sleep with?
No, he’s not.
And that’s what women need to remember with SOD: much of the time, you’re barely moving the needle for this guy. He’s swiped on more attractive women, mostly not matching and getting ghosted by the few matches he finds genuinely attractive. Gradually he lowers his standards little by little to the point where he matches with you, and the decision he makes is at the insect level of cognition: having sex with a less attractive woman than what he’d like is preferable to not having sex at all.
Red pill talks about “the wall”—the point at which a woman is no longer attractive to the vast majority of men, and the current dynamic we have in the SMP means that many women in this and subsequent generations are going to pass this point and become invisible to men without securing a long term partner.
This is already happening. One only need browse The Cut, or The Atlantic, or any other news site or blog where social trends are discussed to find women 30+ complaining that they can’t find any acceptable guys who both meet their expectations in terms of status and attractiveness AND want to settle down.
So the current state of the SMP is that it’s really excellent for women who are hot and young looking for hookups, and for the Chads or PUAs who can take advantage of this fact; for most men, however, it means marginal matches on the apps, and it’s conditioned us to seek sex as opposed to relationships, because we’re almost never paired with a woman with whom it’s worth having a relationship. And this means many women, as they age out of the dating market, will end up living alone for the latter half of their lives, invisible to men, often childless, with no real relevance to the larger world around them.
So perhaps OPs thesis is true in terms of pure math, but it presupposes a world that doesn’t exist and never will. And the current state of inequality in the SMP is not necessarily good for women; indeed, I’d argue it’s actually quite bad in terms of long term outcomes.