I don’t know what my n-count is.
Not off the top of my head anyway. I’m sure I could figure it out if I think back to all the various lovelies I’ve had the carnal pleasure of knowing–sex tends to be one of those things in life you remember and remember well.
As for approach to date or lay ratio? My best guess is somewhere along these lines:
- 5:1 approach to number
- 2.5:1 dates (as in girls I get out on dates) to lay
- 50:1 approach to lay
That might be wrong one way or the other–there’s no way I could go back and count with 100% accuracy–too many approaches and too many dates I haven’t recorded…but then, there’s a reason for that.
Because I don’t care.
That’s not a knock on the guys who track their stats–it’s cool to be able to look back and know how many approaches you did in a given year, or how many dates you had, how many lays, and compare efficiencies from one year to the next. I imagine it’s part of the fun for a lot of guys; a way to track their progress.
But I’m also pretty sure it doesn’t matter.
Because there’s so much noise in Game and dating, and women are so damn flaky, flighty, and random, that it’s nearly impossible to use numbers to discern a clear signal. There are simply too many confounding factors.
For example, if you approach hotter, tighter, younger, you’re going to have worse stats and fewer lays, and in reverse, if you go for older and less hot, you’ll do better…probably. But we can’t even say that for certain, because it seems, based on my own experience as well as many others, that there’s an age range between 26/27–35/36 who seem less amenable to Game and less R-selected in general. Trying to figure all of that out is complicated, and age/hotness is just one factor.
Consider some of the others:
- City–this can vary in terms of the ratio of men:women, old:young, race:class, etc.
- Culture–are the girls more feminine or masculine; are people open and friendly, or shy and introverted; is sexuality loose and freewheeling, or more conservative?
- Race/ethnicity relative to local race/ethnicity, and whether this is an advantage or not?
- Seasonality and weather
- Status/wealth of the player
- Height/looks/fitness of the player
- Amount of time the player can dedicate to cold approach and dating.
- Type and place of approach: street day game, shop or mall day game, night game, IOIs, grocery stores, parks, universities, etc.
There are other factors I’m forgetting, but one that certainly has to be mentioned is luck.
Day game–even night game–is a low probability affair: most girls are going to say no, and we know this going in. Problem is, when you couple a very low probability event (getting laid, which for the best guys is about 30:1) with an only moderate number of overall chances (a typical player might get 500-700 approaches in a year–if he’s dedicated), luck and chance can play a huge role in the statistical output. It’s entirely possible to go out on a given day and every girl either blows you out or tells you she has a boyfriend; it’s also entirely possible to get a same day lay, or get numbers and leads from half the girls you approach.
A good example is baseball: for a simplicity’s sake, let’s say a good player hits .333–get’s a hit one out of every three at-bats–and a bad player hits .250, meaning he gets a hit one out of every four. Well, given the high rate of failure, can you tell me who’s a good player or a bad player over the course of 30, or 40, or even 100 at bats?
No. Because it’s entirely possible for the good player who hits .333 for the season (typically 550-bats) to have a 100 at-bat stretch where he hits .250 or less, and vice versa, for the bad player to hit .333 for 100 at bats for a stretch. The reason is luck: a line drive can go straight to the center fielder, and a pop up can fall behind first base and trickle into foul territory for a double.
And that’s with an outcome of 1/3 or 1/4. In cold approach, we’re talking 1/30 is GREAT. 1/50 is Good. 1/100 is probably average, though again this all depends on so many factors. So doing enough sets to distinguish the signal from the noise is damned difficult, if not impossible unless the guy can go full time and do thousands of sets per year.
And what’s the point anyway? Isn’t it merely dick measuring of another sort after all?
Focus on the girl in front of you and trust your instincts.
The fact is, none of this matters–Game isn’t about numbers, it’s about women. Focus on the girl. What matters is the number of leads you have, the number of days you can go run game, the girl on the date, on your couch, in your bed.
I hate to sound new agey, but guys need to focus on the present moment and the girl who’s in front of them right now: the lead you’re texting, the date you have tonight.
Nothing else matters, and that includes all the rules you see from guys on Twitter who for all you know are keyboard gurus who’ve figured out how to parrot platitudes that sound strong or clever, but haven’t a fucking clue what they’re doing (a classic example are guys who think a girl telling you she’s got a BF is a shit test–for the most part no, what she’s saying is she’s not interested, or really does have a BF).
Remember, at its base, Game is having a flirty/friendly conversation and interaction with a girl where you are honest about your sexual desire for her. Attracting her can be reduced to a balance of comfort and value–do you have enough value for her to want to have sex with you, and do you make her comfortable enough with both you and the situation to give her the permission to do so?
Models, rules, platitudes, numbers: they all have their place in helping guys to lend structure to their Game, or having realistic expectations–especially for new guys who are just learning this stuff.
Like, knowing that you may have to talk to 100 girls–maybe even 500–to get that first lay, is a good thing to understand going in. There are far more no’s than yes’s. Most of the time you’re going to get rejected, and if you can’t handle that, go download the apps; just understand that with OLD you’re getting rejected by 1,000s of girls every day, and you’re mostly going to match with -2 or worse of your SMV.
And of course, having some idea of a basic set: direct open, tease/stack, vibe, ground, close–is a really good idea, because then you have some concept of what you’re trying to do based on what has been shown to work.
But at any time, you should be ready to drop the routines or canned lines or whatever plan you have in mind and DO WHAT IT TAKES IN THAT MOMENT TO GET THE GIRL. I mentioned on Twitter the other day that guys should learn the cube–and you should–but there have been times when I started doing the routine, saw pretty quick she wasn’t into it, so I stopped and did something else.
Think of it this way: you have a tool kit, and in that toolkit you should have the following…
The Player’s Tool Kit (click for more specific examples of openers, etc.)
- 3-4 canned openers
- 3-4 universal teases
- 1-2 stories about you that DHV.
- A tattoo or ring or necklace or something about your appearance that is unique, preferably more than one, and with a story.
- A memorized routine or two like the Cube or Questions Game.
- A kiss close or escalation routine.
- 3-4 universal negs.
- 2-3 number close lines.
- A dating routine (or two), including venues near your place.
- 1-2 pre-planned reasons to pull (ex. let’s go watch a movie at mine; let me show you my record collection).
- A place to pull that is private, clean, and comfortable (preferably your own house or apt–at least your own room), stocked with drinks (beer, wine, liquor, tea, coffee, soda water, etc.), and some snack food, plus a way to play music and watch movies.
Now, it should go without saying that you will not need to use all of these things on any one given day/night game outing or date–potentially very few of them. Just like fixing a broken pipe, or building a fence, or repairing a hole in the wall, you use the tools you need to get the job done, and if you don’t think women can be as different as those problems above, you haven’t known many.
Arrogance isn’t the same as confidence.
Where newbies tend to make the mistake of following rules or getting overly obsessed with routines and plans, more advanced guys tend to get stunted by hubris and arrogance: they can’t see the obvious mistakes they are making in game, because instead of looking at what they’re doing and how they can change, they just get mad and project the problem on something or someone else. They obfuscate and make excuses.
It’s the girl’s fault. I wasn’t interested. She wasn’t hot enough. She wouldn’t talk very much. I didn’t get any feeling from her. Blah, blah, blah…
Now, this isn’t to say the above things can’t be true, but they’re often not the reason your Game or date didn’t work. And in any case, why bother going down that path anyway? All you can do is control how YOU behave, what YOU do, how YOU look.
So track stats and numbers if you want to–but far more important is taking a critical, objective look at what you’re doing: every day game session, every night out at the bars, every date, every flake, every lay. Ask yourself:
- What did I do right?
- What did I do wrong?
- What can I do better?
- What can I change–short term, long term?
- What are the limiting factors I can’t change, and need to work around?
A classic example are some of the guys who think peacocking or running routines like the cube are corny and low value, when in actuality, they’re scared to stand out because they’re betas (this is by definition true if you can’t or won’t peacock), and they know they don’t have the kind of personality or delivery to make something like the Cube work.
Strong game is the result of self reflection and calibration, and ultimately, neither is possible without humility–the ability to admit you fucked up or made a mistake. As we know, that’s super rare these days. Most guys, especially in the manosphere, like to say they’re right about everything all the time…but guess what? Anyone who acts like is full of shit.
Understand: you should always project strength to women, and you should never admit a mistake in front of a chick, because women deal in power talk and have an unrealistic view of the world–at least most of them. Most men are also somewhat myopic, but unlike women, they won’t penalize you for showing humility or being honest–you can admit your flaws more than you think, and guys will respect you MORE if you can do this than putting up the false facade of perfection.
If you can’t do that, at the very least be honest with yourself. Stupid and delusional is no way to go through life.
Need help in Game or dating? As always, hit me up and we’ll get to work!
I track stats partially because it’s fun to be able to give someone real evidence for how horrible San Francisco is.
2016-2018: 440 daygame approaches, 131 # closes, 15 dates, 2 lays. Now, caveat is these were my first two years in the game, but during this time I also racked up 65 online lays, and my lay to first date ratio from online was like 50%.
Agreed that guys shouldn’t let tracking stats distract them from improving their Game… but I haven’t seen many situations where it has.
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Yeah absolutely–nothing wrong with tracking stats if you want to. I may try this year once COVID restrictions come off and see what they look like. 65 online lays! Holy hell man that’s a ton! Well done my friend.
Thank you. Online is easy, though. Once you develop a routine it’s just copy and paste: https://pancakemouse.wordpress.com/2017/12/26/how-to-fuck-one-girl-a-week-from-swipe-apps-with-little-time-investment (has gotten a lot tougher in the past 3-4 years though)