Sometimes you shouldn’t game chicks.
That may sound odd coming from a guy who coaches game and encourages his students to go talk to girls wherever they meet them, but like all things in life, there’s a time and place.
I’ll give you an example.
This morning I went to the store to get some random shit and hopefully do a set or two, but as it’s been lately, I’m having a hard time getting volume–the chick I met last week was lucky, and it’s looking like it was luckier than I even realized.
Anyway, I finished shopping and went to the checkout and of course chose the girl who was hottest–and she was HOT! A brown haired hippie kinda girl with big earrings and a shitload of rings and an eclectic vibe; exactly the kind of girl I like and who guys should game, because she’s usually open to that sort of thing.
But as I attempted to comment on her jewelry and flirt with her, something was off. Like, either my game was terrible or she didn’t think I was funny or she was annoyed or in a bad mood–whatever it was, I could tell that if I pivoted direct (I advise opening waitresses, baristas, and store clerks indirect, then going direct) and tried to close, she was going to say no. And probably be annoyed with me.
So instead I thanked her and went on my way.
Now, had she been shopping or I’d met her in the street or whatever, I would’ve done it anyway, even if she gave the same vibe, because why not? The reason I didn’t in this case however, is two-fold:
- She’s trapped. Like, she can’t go anywhere: it’s her job. And if she’s not giving me IOIs and sub-communicating that she likes me, it’s likely she doesn’t.
- I go to that store often, so I don’t really want to be known as that guy–plus, it’s always possible I can build rapport with her over time and then ask her out later.
That’s basically my advice for hitting on girls who are working or at the gym: it’s typically the case that if she really likes you–thinks you’re attractive, etc.–she’s going to give you IOIs, flirt back with you, etc. Roy Walker recently got a +1 with a waitress and I’ve banged several waitresses/working girls in my time in game, which is why you should absolutely do it. But do it with tact and calibration.
Same is true of girls at the gym.
I typically don’t bother with chicks working out, but if you are going to do it, the best advice I’ve heard was from RSD Max: be cool, chatty, and after you’ve talked/flirted with her on 3-4 occasions, then you can ask for her number. And just like with the waitress or barista, read her reaction: is she flirting back, asking you questions, hooking as we say in day game? If so, game on! If not, abort, or wait longer.
Keep in mind fellas: girls aren’t dumb. Or if they are, typically not when it comes to men. For example, one thing I tell my students to do in day game is try to make direct eye contact with the girl if he’s approaching head on from 180 degrees. Because a girl walking toward you will look at you if she’s open to being approached. If she is looking down or to the side while you’re looking directly at her, she doesn’t want to talk–I should add that the exception is if it’s super busy or there’s some other reason she can’t or doesn’t see you.
But girls know that if they look at a man, it’s an IOI, even if they’ve never heard of pick-up and have no idea what that means. One thing to think about here: girls passively attract men. It’s pretty rare that a woman will go out of her way and ask a guy out or give her number. The reason is that for a woman, rejection is a massive blow to her already fragile ego (a male comparison is like getting your ass kicked in a fight in front of a lot of people), and she won’t risk that possibility unless it’s an extremely high value man, and often not even then–which is why the advice to “make her chase” is absolutely moronic 99% of the time.
So because women mostly want to attract men passively, they get very good at sending subtle signals–Mystery, so far as I know, was the first to recognize this and coined the term IOI (indicator of interest). They also get very good at sending signals of disinterest (IOD) when they don’t want male attention.
Now typically in day game, or even night game, the chick doesn’t know if she’s interested in you or not, which is why GAME matters in the first place, and why you shouldn’t only open off IOIs. But if you work with her, or she’s working, or at the gym, or some other place where she can’t reliably escape (remember, girls rely on flight, not fight), she’ll give you IOIs if she likes you, and if she doesn’t like you, she’ll give you IODs–she’ll probably still be nice about it, but polite disinterest is still disinterest.
This is why some guys who are more experienced, like Mr. V or Midwest, will “let girls go.” Because they are calibrated enough to recognize she’s not interested and a number close is just her way to get out of the interaction. New guys, however, should always practice closing, because if you don’t, you’ll weasel out of a lot of sets where you should close and new guys don’t have enough reference experience to read girls well.
But in the cases I’ve described above, you should think about tact and calibration, whether you’re new or not.
Some more failure stories…
I forgot to add these in my origin post, but as always I think guys find them entertaining.
The first one that comes to mind is the first time I matched with a truly hot chick off Tinder–HB 8, brunette, banging body, and a huge slut (she said non-mono on her profile). First date was awesome, she was super into me and things went really well.
The next date, however, I got her to come out for Halloween. She was dressed up like a hot slut (burlesque Moulin Rouge style) and I went as a gangster and we went to this cool pop up party downtown. Unfortunately, I decided to have some drinks beforehand and then we had some more drinks at the pop up and then on the way back to her place where we were going to fuck, I asked if she had a car–which we had talked about on the first date so was fucking stupid, but also I think she had figured out by then I was a few beers too deep–and she rightfully got pissed and made me drop her off and never talked to me again.
I have to admit I’ve had a lot of drinking-related unforced errors, which is why I mostly avoid it now, with rare exceptions–and I get that for guys who don’t have the itch that’s hard to understand, but if you’ve ever been addicted to anything or had substance abuse issues, you get it.
Another story of failure was this really cute Native American girl I matched with on Bumble (OLD use to work a hell of a lot better to be honest). 26, probably a high 7, really nice body–talked on the date about how she didn’t wear underwear and slept naked, which I now know means she needed me to fuck her quickly.
Same thing though. First date went well–second date fail.
This time I managed not to drink too much, but just failed to escalate. Like, didn’t do fucking ANYTHING in terms of kino, kissing…I was just really nice. We all know how that goes. And when we got back to my place it was too late. I don’t think I was so pathetic as to ask to kiss her, but it was a pathetic job of seduction on my part.
Never heard from her again either.
I think I’ve written about most of the rest before, but I guess the point is that it’s OK to fail. It’s going to happen. Indeed, I’d argue it’s inevitable. When you first start out, you’re just going to get your assed kicked for awhile–think Turk said that to a guy new in game, and he was right. But every time you have a bad set, weasel on a hot chick, strike out on a date, etc.–just learn from it.
That’s what I did. I never wanted to have those kinds of fuck ups again, and for the most part, I haven’t…I’ve just found new ways to fail.
Crazy example of why the worst of bad girl game–flaking–is so fucking deadly.
I can’t remember if I’ve written about this before, but I don’t even care. It’s worth mentioning again.
A friend’s cousin I know pretty well recently got married, and dude was a catch: engineer making six figures, six feet tall, actually pretty cool guy who also has good game and must be fucking her well enough because she’s now preggers.
Here’s the crazy thing though: she almost passed on him. Like, she had texted with him a bit after matching on OLD, and was then ghosting for whatever dumb girl reason. So he sends an amazing revival text: hey is there a secret password to get you to respond?
And it works!
She responds, they end up setting up a date, and bam a year later she’s married, they’ve got a gorgeous house and a bun in the oven.
But like…think about how close she was to NONE of that happening. If he hadn’t sent that text, OR if she’d been an idiot girl and not replied to it because blah, blah, blah–she’d still be single and very close to being walled off from high quality men.
I mean, to be honest, if I could mold this guy into a player he could frankly do a lot better (he and I would fucking slay together because as I said, he does have good natural game), but I guess that’s what girls are counting on, either explicitly or implicitly: that most guys don’t know any better.
Ladies, I got new for you: the dudes are figuring this shit out.
Not trying to be a dick. I’m happy for her. And them. Having a family and children is GOOD! And they seem like they’ll be pretty happy assuming he can keep his shit together and she doesn’t start melting down. I will also give her credit for being feminine and submissive and an awesome cook and dressing like a pretty girl should. Funny how that shit helps you get a man, isn’t it?
Anyway, maybe that’s a good story to tell your sister or friend who’s a girl and bitching about men. Flake at your own peril–because it might, like in this case, literally be the love of your life…and you might not get another chance at it.
That’s it for now. Good luck out there gents! The sun is shining, the skin is showing, and we’re on the way to a glorious summer. If you want help learning cold approach, setting up your OLD profile, seduction, dating, red pill philosophizing or anything else, hit me up for some coaching and we’ll get you squared away.
Also a reminder I’ll be offering a course this summer titled The Fundamentals of Game and Seduction. Email me to reserve your spot.
Oh, and big shout out to my boy Thomas Crowne who published his new book DEAD! today. Make sure to go grab your copy ASAP!