On Game: do most guys not care about getting laid, or do they not know how?

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RedQuest suspects most guys don’t care about getting laid that much.

A fair read in most cases. If someone is fat and out of shape, the obvious conclusion is that they don’t care about being in shape. After all, the knowledge you shouldn’t eat pizza and ice cream or drink beer and soda all the time is out there, as is the idea that fitness requires working out aka physical exertion. So to the extent someone’s fat, they have only one person to blame–the same one staring back at them in the mirror every morning.

Same is true of school for the most part–if you’re a bad student, it’s most likely because you’re not trying hard, not showing up, and/or not doing the work. Also true of sports, most games, hobbies, etc.

However, when it comes to things like money and women, success isn’t always so straightforward. This isn’t what you’ll hear in the manosphere, but the honest truth is that it’s neither easy nor obvious how to make a lot of money unless you’ve chosen a career like being a lawyer, doctor, engineer, or programmer–and even then a lot of those guys don’t do as well as they should. The number of internet millionaires out there is probably 1/100 what you think, maybe 1/1000 what guys on Twitter make it seem like, and the cost of living in Western countries is high…I guess what I’m saying is that it’s not always as simple as working really hard and saving money–you can work at a pizza joint or a lot of jobs for that matter, work hard and save money, and still never rise above lower middle class.

When it comes to women, success becomes even more esoteric.

I speculate most guys don’t even know where to begin and so for them it’s not a matter of not caring, or apathy, but simply a problem that can’t be solved or perceive it to be so far beyond their ability to solve that it’s not worth trying. Like asking an algebra student to make sense of calculus.

Put yourself in the shoes of a typical millennial dude: you grew up with a smart phone and social media, which means there’s a real chance you don’t know how to talk to people well and sure as hell aren’t comfortable doing it. The hot chicks you grew up with all have IGs that makes them seem inaccessible except for the hot Chad athletes you went to college with–but even sometimes those guys don’t get laid because they can’t make a move, don’t know how to escalate, and like the average guy, don’t have anything interesting to say because they don’t read books or do much other than stare at their phone or play video games. You don’t match on Tinder or the other apps much because you don’t have great pictures or good fitness, and you’re a guy, so the app penalizes you even worse. Maybe you have some dates, but either the girl is -2 SMV and 30lbs heavier than she looked like in her pictures, or she’s actually attractive but you have no idea how to seal the deal because you don’t know what to talk about and can’t escalate.

When you couple this with the fact a lot of today’s women, especially in the US and Western EU, are masculine and kinda bitchy, plus all the nonsense about feminism and #metoo and consent, again, I don’t think it’s that most guys don’t care, at least not in the traditional sense–they care, but navigating the modern world of dating as a guy has arguably never been more difficult, so they don’t try as hard as they could which means they may not as well be trying at all.

And that’s just one subgroup: Zoomers are probably even more fucked by social media and smart phones, and have many of the same problems as Millennials (btw, social anxiety is for the most part, a farce: it’s a result of staring at your phone and scrolling all day–real social anxiety is incredibly rare, but if you never talk to anyone or spend much time thinking on your own, people are going to make you anxious). A lot of older guys don’t have their fitness together and grew up in an era where women were just nicer and a hell of a lot easier to talk to–now they find themselves divorced and trying to use dating apps to meet chicks and it’s horrible.

Just to drill down on that: dating apps are lousy at best and largely responsible for a lot of the unhappiness in dating and romance for both men and women. Yes, you can use them to get laid, and I can help you optimize how to use them–it’s one of the PDFs and slide shows I share with clients (nothing mind blowing I assure you, and you shouldn’t pay anyone lots of money to teach you how to get girls through dating apps, which is why my focus is cold approach and dating strategy/escalation, because that’s going to make the biggest difference–but if guys want to meet chicks that way I’m happy to help).

But even optimized, the fact is dating apps will mostly net you 6s and low 7s (this is a repeated theme when I talk to clients and why most of them want to learn cold approach); you’re simply not going to match with lots of really hot girls on the apps because that’s just not how they work–additionally, it’s important to point out that a lot of women aren’t even on the apps because of how shitty they are. Point is, if you’re a typical guy and your only experience dating, post HS or college, is meeting women through dating apps, I can understand why guys give up: if the best options you have as a 31 year old guy are entitled single moms and fat chicks (let’s be honest, the apps are littered with these women and they’re the ones swiping right most of the time), getting super into sports or hunting or fishing sounds pretty appealing.

Does that qualify as not caring as RedQuest says? I mean, I guess technically yes, but it’s like not caring about something that appears to hold a very small reward vs. the effort required to get said reward. Like, if you had to fish for 10 hours to catch a 12 inch trout, and that was how it always was, 10 hours per 1 small fish, would you do it?

I wouldn’t. I’d find better things to do with my time.

The trick is that this can all be remedied as everyone in this community knows. If guys improve and upgrade their fitness and fashion, learn cold approach and/or optimize OLD, and learn Game in general, including dating strategy and escalation, it’s entirely possible to get laid and have relationships with attractive women–indeed, a lot of them depending how far guys want to go.

But how many guys know about this?

Far fewer than we might guess or expect. The first reason is that it’s simply not mainstream information: dating strategy, how to escalate, or even simply how to understand and behave around women so as to come across as high value, isn’t really talked about anywhere that’s “socially acceptable.” It’s expected that people–especially guys–should just know this stuff and are able to do it, and those who can’t are framed as hopeless losers, if not explicitly then that’s the implication. My guess is a lot of guys struggle with chicks early on, then assume they just “don’t get it” and quit or don’t try very hard going forward.

Second, to what extent any talk of Game does leak through, it’s framed as PUA and Red Pill–sleazy, low value guys wearing eye make up and feather boas hitting on women in an uncalibrated way, or else it falls under the umbrella of toxic masculinity. The inference is that we’re doing something immoral or untoward, which of course isn’t true, but we all know that people’s capacity to believe bullshit is depressingly high; look at the number of people who won’t take the COVID vaccine (if you won’t take it because you’re not terribly worried about COVID, fair enough I guess–it’s not that deadly for most people; on the other hand, if you think it’s a way for the overlords to bug our brains, you might want to think about the bugs you’ve already got in your brain) or think transwomen are the same as biological women (this is just plain batshit crazy).

Like, where are guys going to find this stuff? And how? It’s not on IG or Tik-Tok. It’s on Twitter but the takes on there are often actually toxic or overly political in which case it’s easy to dismiss, and to the extent it’s on YouTube and Reddit you’d have to know where to look, using Red Pill, Day Game, or Pick-Up as keywords.

Which is unlikely. Most guys don’t know what “Day Game” even is (I didn’t know the term until I was months into doing it), nor TRP, and PUA is stained by a bad reputation. And let’s be honest about the manosphere: a guy could stumble across The Red Pill/Manosphere and come to believe it’s just “whamen bad” tradcons, Right Wing nutters, and weird-ass crypto bros, never to return because the content seems to have nothing to do with chicks or getting laid.

Meanwhile, there’s a large force in conventional culture pushing the idea sex and gender aren’t even real, and #metoo has a lot of guys scared utterly shitless–the way a lot of feminists and SJWs frame consent will basically guarantee that any guy who does what they’re asking will so thoroughly turn the woman off after a short time that consent won’t matter because sex is never going to happen.

Layered on top of all this is simply that today’s men and male culture aren’t all that masculine. If you’re a skinny armed guy sporting a dad bod wearing a shirt that reads “the future is female”, women aren’t going to be turned on or want to fuck you.

So do guys not care? I mean ultimately, yes, RedQuest is right–if they really cared they’d find a way, and you’d think getting laid would be about as high a priority as there is: like eating, drinking, and sleeping, we’re talking about biological urges here.

But as I’ve outlined above, there are a lot of reasons and confounding narratives that may cause them not to care as much as they should, in which case it’s hard to blame them entirely. And it’s for that reason I write this blog and put out so much free content: in the hope some small number of guys find this, read the other blogs, and do better with chicks as a result.

The guys I don’t understand are the ones who know about this stuff, don’t take action on their own, and if they continue to struggle, why they don’t hire a coach to help them with this stuff. Obviously, guys can learn this stuff on their own–the question is: will they?

Mostly no. If you’re reading this and want to know the difference between a guy who’s going to be able to do this on his own vs. needs help, there are a five keys to independent success:

  1. Will he hold himself accountable to do something scary and intimidating, like day or night game, consistently, meaning hundreds if not thousands of approaches over a relatively short period of time–at least 50 approaches per month, going out 2-3 times a week AND/OR fine tune his pics on OLD to the point where he can match with attractive women?
  2. Will he calibrate his approaches and dating to adjust what works and learn how to run dates, flirt, tease, escalate smoothly to sex, etc.
  3. Does he possess a strong set of baseline social skills and charisma?
  4. Can he get himself to a strong male 7 through fitness and fashion?
  5. Can he deal with a large amount of failure and learn from it with no support other than his own frame and self confidence, rather than becoming discouraged or depressed?

The number of guys who can do these five things is small; indeed, there are VERY FEW guys in this community who are truly self taught players. Todd V was a disciple of Mystery, as was Strauss, and arguably all of RSD, and most of the London boys learned from Beckster, Torero, Krauser, or Jimmy Jambone–perhaps I’m missing some guys here, but the point is almost all of them had help and learned from someone. Most guys who get really good at this have a coach or mentor at some point (or at the very least a wing). Some guys just need a little bit of guidance here or there–as I’ve mentioned before: a fair number of my clients only need 2-3 hours of my help, and they’re close enough already that what I teach them pushes them over the top. Other guys need continued support for many months. It all just depends on where the guy’s starting from.

Anyway, if you’re struggling and you want help, hit me up for some coaching–or if not me, find someone else you like better. But you’re not alone, and there’s no shame in getting help; indeed, it’s really hard and stupid not to…

Or, maybe RedQuest is right and you don’t really care as much as you say you do.


  1. Being in my late 20s, my observation is that men in Gen Z rely entirely on social circle/dating apps. The consequences for being labeled the “creepy” guy is way worse then the reward of possibly banging a girl. I don’t think rejection is the real reason. A 20 year old awkward guy who isn’t conventionally good looking doing cold approaches is not socially acceptable. It could be my location, but I believe many girls see it as low value as well.

    I had a 21 year old I met off a dating app describe to me how a guy approached her. It wasn’t all that awful she chose me because I was higher value.


  2. >>I speculate most guys don’t even know where to begin

    See, this is what’s interesting to me… even if a guy doesn’t, he can type “how do I pick up girls” into a search engine, and he’ll probably find answers. Knowledge has never been more available. Plus, the knowledge about how to begin is out there, but it isn’t going “viral.” Guys aren’t passing it on to one another. If you talk to teen boys you’ll hear them discussing video games and sports… not about how they just read THE GAME or discovered this amazing guy, Red Pill Dad PUA, who will teach them how to get chicks.

    >>Point is, if you’re a typical guy and your only experience dating, post HS or college, is meeting women through dating apps

    I dunno… again, if a guy wants to do better, it’s not that hard to learn how… so it seems, at least to my eye, that most guys don’t want to.

    >>The first reason is that it’s simply not mainstream information: dating strategy, how to escalate, or even simply how to understand and behave around women so as to come across as high value, isn’t really talked about anywhere that’s “socially acceptable.”

    It’s interesting to me, too, what becomes mainstream and what doesn’t. “Critical race theory” was an obscure bunch of academic nonsense 20 years ago, even 10 years ago. Today it’s bizarrely mainstream. Game has, to put it lightly, not made the same journey.

    One could argue that guys learn from online pr0n that girls love to fuck…. but most seem not to have absorbed that particular message.

    >>and #metoo has a lot of guys scared utterly shitless

    I mean, compared to fighting in WWII or Korea or Vietnam, chicks trolling men with this shit seems like smallish beans. Compared to the joys of fucking, same thing, yeah maybe the dating world is a little riskier than it was 10 years ago, but it’s still pretty safe overall. So I understand this argument, it is a real change in the last four years, but it still feels pretty minor league, overall, like a guy who doesn’t go for a hike and his stated reason is that he might get a blister on his foot. Sure, he might, but that’s not why he’s not hiking.

    Maybe we should be grateful that a lot of guys decide to pursue technical expertise and pour their libidinous energy into civilization, instead of directly trying to get laid.

    Liked by 1 person

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